Community - Gender & Sexuality

For discussion, feedback, praises, criticism, concerns or suggestions on topics in Offline RP, Character Backgrounds or general roleplay.
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Poisonous
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby Poisonous » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:49 pm

Having been on the DM side and seen how things get handled privately (and myself not involved in that process), I don't think it's fair at all to say that the DM team hasn't engaged in more subtle or gentle communication. They have.

The original post was diplomatic. If anything wasn't diplomatic it was my response to why it might be seen as offensive, and I spoke for myself only. Don't go blaming other people for that.

Thank you!
Mother Kelda Adler, high priestess of The Crying God. Found in Kelda's Clinic & Sarshel City South.
Hedwithien Le'lewaluin, wanderer. Found in ???
Larkka Kowalczyk , hedge witch. Found in ???
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Hagra
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby Hagra » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:56 pm

Never seen such in all the time I have been here. If two players take it to private quarters, I have no issues with it.

Artifice
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby Artifice » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:10 am

booksarefun666 wrote:The way I figure it's not really a problem for my personal immersion is this: Adventurers and homosexuals are relatively minor population, embodied disproportionately in the avatars that the players use. While immersion breaking initially to see 6 lesbians on a server of 12 - 24, you have to understand that's six lesbians in all of Impitur. When put next NPCs such as Joe Blow the farmer and Sarushan the Herald's assistant, you can't get much more small of a minority.

To kind of pile on to the point more: In a region of 1,205,280 people, even 1% put aside for homosexuality and adventurers of that is 12,052.8 and that's more then enough statistically for all our players to fill that niche if they so wish.
:(
booksarefun666 wrote:The way I figure it's not really a problem for my personal immersion is this: Adventurers and homosexuals are relatively minor population, embodied disproportionately in the avatars that the players use. While immersion breaking initially to see 6 lesbians on a server of 12 - 24, you have to understand that's six lesbians in all of Impitur. When put next NPCs such as Joe Blow the farmer and Sarushan the Herald's assistant, you can't get much more small of a minority.
:x
booksarefun666 wrote:When put next NPCs such as Joe Blow the farmer and Sarushan the Herald's assistant, you can't get much more small of a minority.
:evil:

booksarefun666 wrote:When put next NPCs such as... Sarushan.
:lol:

More seriously, Books has a point with this particular (full) quote and immersion.

Anyway, I can't help but have felt quite an air on the server OOC generally tonight. Hopefully I'm just being oversensitive but I don't want anyone to feel put out. I guess it's easy for me to say, since I haven't experienced any of this and it's not directed at me. But maybe we should all smile, forget about this, and just try and do the best we can going forward to RP with each-other at every opportunity and avoid forming smaller inward looking groups, which is what appears to be the fundamental fear here.
Sarushan Folhana - Bard
Louhi Laakkonen - Priest

Smarts
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby Smarts » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:30 am

New here. I haven't seen anything described here yet, so I can't say if it's a problem. On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem if an admin thinks it is one.

Servers and their communities tend to form around themes and stories. The server admins usually lay it down: 'this place is intended for stories relating to A, B and C, and the themes relate to X, Y and Z'. If you see a server with a theme or story you like, you go there and join in with them. There are servers created with explicit themes of gender and sexuality in mind; this doesn't seem to be one of them, being more about community life on a frontier city (I think). It's a strong idea, clearly expressed, easy to understand, and worth maintaining.

So - if the folks running the show decide things are getting out of hand, to the point that the themes and stories they want to encourage are being neglected... and a reminder is needed? Seems reasonable to me. An application needs putting in place? Ok, fair enough. Something just needs a straght-up no? Again, that's cool, it's all good. Keeping things on course are what admins are for.

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booksarefun666
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby booksarefun666 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:09 am

I think we should probably look past the cringey love scenes, supposedly done in their own rented homes or in very obscure places of the module and take note of what they did to contribute to the server. When you find out many people are tucked away in their corners of the modules doing sweet nothings but e-dates you could make a solid case that isn't alienating the gentlemen that play lesbians.

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Poisonous
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby Poisonous » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:18 am

booksarefun666 wrote:I think we should probably look past the cringey love scenes, supposedly done in their own rented homes or in very obscure places of the module and take note of what they did to contribute to the server. When you find out many people are tucked away in their corners of the modules doing sweet nothings but e-dates you could make a solid case that isn't alienating the gentlemen that play lesbians.
I think your wording may have been a bit off here, it's unclear what you're trying to say. Sorry!
Mother Kelda Adler, high priestess of The Crying God. Found in Kelda's Clinic & Sarshel City South.
Hedwithien Le'lewaluin, wanderer. Found in ???
Larkka Kowalczyk , hedge witch. Found in ???
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DM Poisonous - Currently on hiatus.

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booksarefun666
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby booksarefun666 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:25 am

Poisonous wrote:
booksarefun666 wrote:I think we should probably look past the cringey love scenes, supposedly done in their own rented homes or in very obscure places of the module and take note of what they did to contribute to the server. When you find out many people are tucked away in their corners of the modules doing sweet nothings but e-dates you could make a solid case that isn't alienating the gentlemen that play lesbians.
I think your wording may have been a bit off here, it's unclear what you're trying to say. Sorry!
To my understanding the problem is that there's a lot of people playing lesbians. This really only becomes a factor in one of two situations:

1.) They're in their rented apartment and having a tender moment or in some obscure module location.
2.) It comes up suddenly, you see them kissing in the middle of the dungeon, being flirty openly, etc. I do not see this a lot and I assume it's all mostly done in the privacy of somewhere.

Since it's done in the privacy of somewhere, they're effectively not bothering anyone except the DM that is spying.

Now sometimes, you can have players where they do nothing but role-play dates and cyber so I recommend taking note of what they actually do outside of the bedroom and out into the world to contribute to the server environment. Do they roleplay with others? Create events? Join events?

If they do not do a whole lot outside of roleplaying dates I feel you would have a stronger case that isn't nearly as alienating based on the premise of, "Hey, I notice a lot of you guys are in your house and doing things. Be sure to go outside and join the rest of us!"

Otherwise, it just seems a non-issue to me.

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ljuslek
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby ljuslek » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:27 am

If the intention here was laying the foundation for a collected and constructive discussion wherein the players who are described as being at fault would defend themselves or offer their views on the matter, that has catastrophically failed. No names were named in the original post, that much is true, but you don’t have to point with your finger when a gesture of the hand serves the same end.

My character is engaged in a lesbian relationship here on TER. I have tried, and perhaps failed, to make her sexuality an integral part of her story and of her character. I have also enjoyed putting in effort towards making her more than her relationship and her sexuality: the former of those aspects serving as a foundation that complicates a range of things in her life whilst also making her richer as a character. Before I finish off and get down to the meat of my post I will say that I dearly respect everyone’s right to an opinion, and I will also interject that if my character’s interactions with the world of TER and it’s inhabitants have in any way detracted from the immersion or enjoyment of other players or DMs that I apologize. That was never my intention.

To see representatives of the DM team, whether they post as players or as DMs handle this so poorly however; it makes me feel saddened. Genuinely so, further seeing them suggest that players who’ve invested considerable amounts of time and effort into making this server and their own characters richer should “(re)consider what they use TER for” is beyond disheartening. It’s insulting. It becomes even more so when the ire and frustration thinly veiled as a desire for a constructive discussion only applies to a select few who’ve had their characters engage in lesbian or bisexual relationships or flings. I was not the ‘target’ of this attempt at a discussion, so it has been made plain in correspondence more private in nature. But that begs the question if I want to participate in play on a server where anyone is made to feel targeted for what they choose to play in this way? The answer to that question is to me a firm and resounding ‘no’. Issues with what manner of characters players elect to portray can of course be called forth to discussion, at the leisure of DMs and administrators. That is not the issue at hand here; the way it has been brought up is. Pointing fingers by using the palm. As Ponyrealms wrote: “… exercise caution and respect players' privacy and feelings. In a heavy RP server, if you think you need clarification as a DM from any player roleplay, you should request it from the players.”

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Poisonous
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby Poisonous » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:37 am

Thanks for the clarification!
Since it's done in the privacy of somewhere, they're effectively not bothering anyone except the DM that is spying.
I really think you should reconsider calling it 'spying', because that implies the DM is somehow in the wrong for monitoring what's going on on the servers. DMs can see what's being written everywhere, they don't need to snoop over someone's shoulder to do it. If we're going to be upset that a DM is 'spying' then we don't deserve to have DMs.

The problem is that clearly it hasn't been kept purely to private spaces--it may just be flirtations or drama, and it's probably only a small portion of those who play lesbian PCs that are bad at hiding it. But it does get noticed, and not just by DMs.

The thing is, they shouldn't have to hide it. Lesbian PCs can and have been just as good PCs as any other, and aren't inherently 'bad RP'. Not at all. I get the feeling this is what some have come away feeling like, and it isn't true.

But please, just don't let it become a fad. That's all (imo).
Mother Kelda Adler, high priestess of The Crying God. Found in Kelda's Clinic & Sarshel City South.
Hedwithien Le'lewaluin, wanderer. Found in ???
Larkka Kowalczyk , hedge witch. Found in ???
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Poisonous
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Re: Community - Gender & Sexuality

Postby Poisonous » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:42 am

ljuslek wrote:-
At what point are you responsible for how you're reacting to the post, when the original post was respectful and honest? It's clear it wasn't lightly made, the original post didn't make light of or insult the people choosing to engage in such RP. I can't think of any other way to address the matter which has bothered both players and staff here. Ignore it? At the end of the day everyone's putting time and effort into this place, and we owe it to each other to be able to discuss things without throwing our hands up and declaring that the other side has done wrong by us simply by bringing up concerns.
Mother Kelda Adler, high priestess of The Crying God. Found in Kelda's Clinic & Sarshel City South.
Hedwithien Le'lewaluin, wanderer. Found in ???
Larkka Kowalczyk , hedge witch. Found in ???
Image
DM Poisonous - Currently on hiatus.


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