Elhokar Relevel for PrC

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Silver Snow
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Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Silver Snow » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:10 am

Hey all,
Elhokar's 5, and before I was able to take Shifter I realized that I had forgotten about the class requirements of 7 Concentration. I would like level 4 to be redone, during which I max ranks in Concentration instead of putting them into Heal and Knowledge Nature. I will replace those skills at lvl 5. Thank you.

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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Silver Snow » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:38 pm

Just as an update, the difference is 2 skill points I plan to simply reassign at a retake of level 4. Happy to answer any questions; hope this is an easy one to do in game.

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Obsidian Sea
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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Obsidian Sea » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:34 pm

This has been approved and will be dealt with at the next convenient opportunity.
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Dawnbreak
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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Dawnbreak » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:14 pm

Dealt and done with.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Silver Snow » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:28 pm

Rather than starting a new thread..I'll continue it in this one:

I took on the concept of the PrC with very limited knowledge and the hope that I would have a chance to explore the class (with DMs' help) once I got it, and come to a more informed decision then. After being able to finally take the class and seeing what it entailed, as well a lot of thought on the matter, I would like to back out of taking the Shifter Prestige Class in favor of going pure druid instead.

I do not believe I would enjoy the class, and am not comfortable going forward with the class with no substantial knowledge of its mechanics, as every other class has those detailed out. I would anticipate no change in the RP around this class reshuffle, and would like to be returned to the same XP point where I was prior to this earlier request being granted.
I would consider it unfair to be locked into a decision made with relative ignorance, and so I would like to relevel as pure druid with the following feat, skill, and attribute changes:
Skills: Concentration would be reduced to 4 ranks instead of 7.
Attributes: CON 12 would become CON 10, WIS 14 would become WIS 15 (before lvl 4, to be WIS 16 at lvl 4)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike to be replaced with Extend Spell

Additionally, I would be happy to work with a DM and help catalog the specific stats of the various forms so that any future players are not going to be kept guessing before making early skill and feat commitments to a class they may find unattractive.
I apologize for all of the time that has gone into this already from the side of the DMs.

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Obsidian Sea
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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Obsidian Sea » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:12 am

The team is happy to recind the previous LETO Request and reimburse this character's XP to allow you to continue as a Druid without prestige class levels. We totally understand that there are certain obscurities surrounding the potential of Shifter and other PrCs: this is something of which anybody considering the prestige classes has always been aware of, and we expect that the RP potential of the prestige classes will be the driving factor behind its selection, though careful consideration has gone into the mechanics of it in the hopes that it remains competitive. Skill points can be allocated at your own discretion turning from level 4-5 again, however the team will not edit skill, feat and attributes of the character beyond this point, owing to their establishment in the character's RP over the duration of their time on The Easting Reach.
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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Silver Snow » Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:43 pm

Considering that my request wasn't met in full, I am likely to continue with Shifter. The alternative is me returning to a druid with a wasted feat and subpar casting stats, my attributes having been deliberately chosen for Shifter. I, of course, expressly disagree with any assumption that the feat I asked to be changed had any part of his rp, and was instead a completely vestigial addition simply for the sake of the PrC; not once did he ever fight unarmed or give any indication of doing so. The skill point changes and even attribute changes I could've endure, but with only four feats, I am unwilling to have one utterly wasted.
I would also like to make the point that this prestige class is particularly obscured, as every other (except perhaps daemonbinder) is laid out in terms that are easy to understand and expect. Of course the potential RP of it is compelling, but with every other class I would at least know what I am getting. With a Shifter, the entire class's ability lies in forms that we have no greater knowledge of than "This one may have a scimitar." Before making decisions on feats that -cannot be changed- even within the class, I think it is completely unfair to not paint a better picture of the class's forms. Every decision made with this class is made pretty much blind, as values like AB, AC, and HP are all very important. Unlike a druid, the Shifter has to commit to forms he cannot take back, while a druid can switch between preferred ones at his leisure.
I would see two ways going forward: the team reconsider the replacement of the feat as I asked, and Elhokar continues as pure druid (as his RP has been established thus far), or a member of the team takes out some time to help me understand the Shifter forms, even going forward to the Tier 3 forms, before I make a decision on which would be the most capable and fun to play.
I'd really like to think that as this game all comes down to fun, the team understands that this process, especially getting denied simple and harmless requests, is far from enjoyable for me.

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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Silver Snow » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:08 am

Just to ensure a lack of uncertainty, if I have played my character recently it was not utilizing any of the shifter forms or benefits, and I've made a DM aware of the fact that I wouldn't until this is resolved. I am also, as always, happy to answer questions and clear things up.

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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Loreweaver » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:55 pm

Silver Snow wrote:I, of course, expressly disagree with any assumption that the feat I asked to be changed had any part of his rp, and was instead a completely vestigial addition simply for the sake of the PrC; not once did he ever fight unarmed or give any indication of doing so.
The assumption is made because it's what we would expect from someone playing the prestige class in question. Shifters have the feat prerequisite because of a visceral attitude towards combat, because they rely on their self rather than their tools or for similar reasons. It's not an addition for the sake of mechanics alone, it represents an aspect of what the class stands for.
If you do not see an opportunity to combine it with the character in a natural way, you may have to rethink things.
Silver Snow wrote:I would also like to make the point that this prestige class is particularly obscured, as every other (except perhaps daemonbinder) is laid out in terms that are easy to understand and expect. Of course the potential RP of it is compelling, but with every other class I would at least know what I am getting.
Silver Snow wrote:the team takes out some time to help me understand the Shifter forms, even going forward to the Tier 3 forms, before I make a decision on which would be the most capable and fun to play.
The form feats have been balanced and special abilities are listed on the wiki. You can look up other stats in the game files if you wish, but they're not excluded by mistake. We strongly prefer forms are chosen based on a character's personality and experience rather than on which combinations would grant the optimal mechanical benefits. There are no bad choices anyway.
We can tell you that none of the forms are going to have stat lines to rival a fighter without first buffing yourself with druid spells. That's not the point of the class. The information on the wiki is deemed sufficient.
Silver Snow wrote:the team reconsider the replacement of the feat as I asked, and Elhokar continues as pure druid
The request we approved was for a change in the order in which skillpoints were assigned, Concentration before Heal and Knowledge, to help you correct your oversight of PrC requirements when you levelled the character from level 3 to level 4. Since you already took your 5th druid level, the request had to include a change in character classes as well. That served its purpose and allowed you to take Shifter levels starting at level 5 rather than level 7.

That you decide within the same day that the class isn't to your liking is your right, but doesn't entitle you to further changes. The team does not wish to spend its time swapping characters back and forth while players experiment; when you make a LETO request we expect that is what you really want for your character.
No one wins if you're locked into a class you can't work with however, so the team has in this case offered to reverse the earlier LETO request. We can not pair that with major changes to feats, skills, attributes and so on, because we'd effectively be transferring XP, caps, equipment, story and so forth from one PC to another character with different methods and ambitions. That PC has not worked for its gains and would have walked a different path, and such a transfer is not fair to other characters who did and do work with their imperfections. Of course, you've indicated that undoing the changes is not satisfactory in itself.
Silver Snow wrote:I'd really like to think that as this game all comes down to fun, the team understands that this process, especially getting denied simple and harmless requests, is far from enjoyable for me.
With regards to fun, as mentioned above, we do not like spending our time on fixing build mistakes only to be told that actually, the original state was better but there's something else we should change instead. This happened before with Abigail, and it's not going to happen again. The team therefore has decided to swap the feats and remove the Shifter class as you request, but will not entertain further character changes on any of your characters in the forseeable future. We hope this decision and its clarity help to safeguard everyone's enjoyment.

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Re: Elhokar Relevel for PrC

Postby Silver Snow » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:53 am

I intend to accept this compromise as it stands. I believe any further discussion or expression of opinion would be unproductive. I look forward to catching a DM in game or having the change LETO'ed.


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