Wizarding 101

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Brindisium
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Wizarding 101

Postby Brindisium » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:42 am

I'm finding playing a low level wizard to be so frustrating that I'm on the verge of abandoning my character. I've been playing NWN for a long time though and I'm wondering if my old habits and lack of understanding of TER's mechanics are the issue.

If anyone has time to give me some pointers as to how a lowish level arcane caster can contribute to a party I'd welcome them. Is crafting the answer? Are there any spells that people find particularly useful? Or at ALL useful ;) Should I abandon casting and walk around in half plate until I can work out an effective defensive strategy? Should I remake him as a crossbow user who happens to dabble in the arcane arts?

People tell me that things start to get better at Level 3 but that the emphasis is still on conjuring, and that a Druid can do that better - and a whole lot more besides. Is there hope as I gain experience?

Yours,
Despondent of Thay

PS - I wouldn't be surprised if there are threads about this elsewhere but the forum search facility seemed to block every search term I could think of as "too common". A link to any other relevant threads would be great, if there are any.
Last edited by Brindisium on Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Vogelens
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Vogelens » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:58 am

Summoning spells are a good option still, as meatshields or damage dealing things. I personally think a Conjurer specialist mage can summon more than druids still (And they are equal to it with each other, assuming the same level) as nwn/TER does not have spontaneous summoning that druids get as a perk in dnd.

Other good spells are buffs, to buff up your partymmembers, like the party fighter with armour and strength, or dex/int for the rogue/trapper. Damage spells are generally not worth it compared to the other options, and while thye look flashy you get more worth out of other spellchoices generally.

Low level mages are essentially crossbow/bow users for the most part, with the occassional spell. They cannot do much at low level yet compared to other classes in long dungeons, but you should get more spells when levelling up. Sticking to buffs and summons will make a mage pretty useful and wanted, and it may feel like you contribute too.
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Highlander » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:34 am

There is always hope :)

I know where you are coming from though, having had a 10 con mage for a good while. Level 2 may well have been the hardest, as you're watching the fighter types gain in strength rapidly, while you are still struggling by with a handful of spells. Level 3 does make a big difference, with access to 2nd level spells, and by then you should have a fairly complete 1st level spellbook. Where you got hit last night, and which I suspect only added to the feeling of fragility, was drawing enemies to you when you shot at them - using a crossbow is fine, but you need to be careful who you target - dont get into a shooting match with an archer foe, you will die pretty fast, and make sure your melee companions are blocking anyone you shoot at from rushing you. Summons, and buffs are very useful, although I get that it may feel a bit limiting just to be the buffbot, in some cases it is the beset way to go, as Vog suggests. There is a damage option open to you when Az is around, that I'll explore in game with you btw. The other thing to do (I've not done this as much as I should) is scribe scrolls - it costs, but that is what wizards spend their coin on, instead of healing - so you have a backup, particularly of utility spells or summons. Try and figure out the summons action tool as well, can run through that with you in game too - positioning can be tricky at times, without risking bumping yourself into harms way, but a bit of practice will help. Self preservation - get ghostly visage when you can, a bit of DR goes a long way, which you'll see with some of the summon creature 2 summons too. Hang in there!
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Kerstman
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Kerstman » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:52 am

I can only echo the statements above. I am not too good at playing an arcane caster, but level 2 spells feel like a huge step up. At least it did for my sorceror.

Something else that may help you is the followers / summons command tool. It should be in the radial menu and i recommend quickslotting it. It shall actually be a good help with putting your summon in front of your PC and you can also create some distance between them. A real life safer, even if it may need some getting used to control-wise. I'd be happy to help you out with that, Brind.
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Highlander » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:04 pm

And another thing - cantrips: forget the damage ones, load up with daze, that actually can make a difference against low level foes (those with minds, of course!). Sometimes with low cr mobs, you don't need to do anything much, Lori spent the first part of her last dungeon trip doing nothing apart from watching the others kill orcs, keeping the spells for when it would make a difference. Knowing when that is, of course, is the harder part. Looks like we have a summons commanding tutorial later guys:)
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Loreweaver » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:35 pm

Buffs and summons are solid picks, yes. They allow you effects which last up to several turns each so they're a more visible way to contribute to the party than a few quick blasts are, and can cause/prevent more damage over time besides. I'd also consider control spells like Daze, Colour Spray, Scare and Sleep. You probably won't be using them all the time, but they allow you to tip back the scales when the party is faced with more than they can safely handle.

But indeed, when you have eight or fourteen spell slots per day you can only cast for eight to fourteen rounds and have to find something else to do the rest of the time. Ranged weapons tend to serve, because even though you're not likely to hit much, it's slightly more effective than just standing around.
Another way to contribute is through cross-class skills. A basic non-human INT 16 wizard can maximize five skills, so once you've covered Spellcraft, Knowledge: Arcana, perhaps another Knowledge and Concentration, you've still got something left.

Search + Disable Device can be a good choice because they're modified by INT, although you don't want to be near the front of the party or get hit by a snare you've overlooked, so it helps to have some CON. If you have some WIS, then Heal can be useful (and it's not actually cross-class), or with some CHA you could boost Appraise and help the party with the selling after the adventure. Set Trap or Escape Artist may be of interest if you have some DEX.
Other characters (particularly bards, rogues and priests) can easily be better at the related tasks than you are, and usually a task falls to whomever is best at it. But you don't always have an optimal party, so there will be times where your flexibility makes a difference. Your class has spare skillpoints for it, and a limited ability to boost the relevant attributes of either the expert or themselves.

Crafting can be a way to expand your class' limits on spells/day, or to give warrior classes access to self-targetting buffs. But it does cost coin, and in my experience a wizard doesn't soon run out of things to spend money on. I'd mainly recommend it for spells you want to memorize just in case, but don't always end up using. A few scrolls like that free up your spellslots for more practical magic.

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Brindisium
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Brindisium » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:30 pm

Thanks for the input everyone :) As you all suggested I'll experiment with summons - and some ooc advice about how to use the command tool thingy and 'manage followers' in the crafting menu would be great.

This made me laugh, thanks Loreweaver:
Ranged weapons tend to serve, because even though you're not likely to hit much, it's slightly more effective than just standing around.
Yep.

Skills, and control spells like Daze and Colour Spray were very much meant to be part of his repertoire but of course being mind affecting they don't work on undead creatures. That is an additional problem I'm bumping up against - because many spells (even mage armour and shield) are more situational here it is hard to prepare without meta-gaming.

Maybe a little more reconnaissance and a handy set of emergency scrolls is the order of the day. We will see.

Cheers!
Last edited by Brindisium on Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vogelens
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Vogelens » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:37 pm

What you can do as well to prepare more situational spells without metagaming is take it IC. If someone is suggesting going somewhere, scout it out or gather information, with what you expect to find. Mage Armour and Protection from Evil are good buffs for level 1 but indeed situational. Though, most warrior types would appreciate a Magic Weapon spell too. While mostly useful to pierce DR of ghosts or whatever, it does add some benefit against all enemies, really.
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Toros » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:59 pm

There's a ton of good advice here, and I would definitely echo it.

Compared to a fighter a mage starts off very weak and vulnerable, but at level 8 a mage can contribute more to the group.

The first few levels can be rough, but realistically you can explore to reach level 2 easily, and a few dungeons bring you to level 3. Staying at range, attacking what the melee are attacking (instead of getting into ranged duels) and breaking line of sight if focused go a very long way.

One trend I frequently notice with mages is that they're poorly optimized stat wise (aka 10 con) and have an individualistic streak that combine to make their lives much harder. In many ways a mage is a support character who excells in the protection a group provides. Their commonly "stand-offish" personalities work against the class design.

Melee tend to be more friendly and outgoing, and also tend to invest either in damage or defense because they are punished heavily in both cases if they don't. This magnifies the difference between the experiences, as a friendly AC fighter has a much easier time than an anti-social wizard who put their feats into crafting.
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Brindisium
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Re: Wizarding frustrations

Postby Brindisium » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:04 pm

Toros wrote:Their commonly "stand-offish" personalities work against the class design.
Very true. But actually, now I can conjure an Attack Duck all my problems are over :?
Last edited by Brindisium on Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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