PRC Reworks

[Toros]

This is going to be a fairly long and text heavy thread, but I wanted to take a moment to explain why I made it, and the thought process behind the reworks.

As you may or may not know, while the base classes appear to be designed for a level 8 system (potentially they scale to 12 as well, but many classes have clear "capstone feats" at 8) the PRCs are universally designed for a level 12 system.

It seems that currently the plan is to have an e8 system, and this presents somewhat of a difficulty as to what will happen. If we allow taking PRC levels in e8, then there may be a tendency to go base class 7, PRC 1 instead of giving up the powers of a base class to take more PRC.

My goals for these reworks:

-4 levels (Preventing any AB issues)
-Intended to be balanced for level 8
-Give players the iconic PRC abilities, though perhaps in a nerfed form
-Evil PRCs are deliberately more powerful than others.
-Minimal additional coding required to implement (value changes or what I believe to be relatively simple changes)

To explain this last point, it is an inherent disadvantage to play an evil character, and very likely that an evil character will be outnumbered in their final stand. The downside of evil is that while it tends to be a quick path to power, the wielder is stained and corrupted by it. As such, evil options have a greater cost, almost certainly will end in death, and I believe that giving them more power will be more appealing for characters to play the villain, and put up a better fight before good triumphs in the end.

Again, this is a large series of suggestions based on playing on this server consistently for 18 months, but that doesn't mean I won't make mistakes. I am looking for feedback and suggestions.


Now, to begin:

Shadowdancer

Requirements: Unchanged

1) Darkvison, Shadow Strike, Ultravision 1/day
2) Uncanny Dodge, Shadow Jaunt*
3) Sever Shadow, Improved Evasion
4) Cloak of Shadows**, Concealment I

*Shadow Jaunt uses vanilla invisibility that isn't range restricted.

**Cloak of shadows adds 1d4 negative damage on strike

Not a great deal was changed, because not a great deal was needed to be. All classes that qualify are quite powerful in their four later levels (rogue, monk, etc) and the vast majority of the abilities are not very powerful, but provide wonderful flavor. This would allow a character to get the iconic sever shadow and Shadow Jaunt abilities, which will allow better invisibility instead of TERs otherwise range restricted version. Given that it would require 4 levels and a character level 8, I think this is warranted. Ultravision was added because while darkvision doesn't allow a character to see in Darkness, Ultravision does so it adds additional flavor.


Blackguard

Requirements: Great fortitude, Intimidate 3, BAB +4

Path of Blood
1) Dark Blessing, Devil Strike
2) Fiendish Regeneration
3) Hell Strength, Enflame Weapon
4) Summon Fiend, Aura of Flame

Dark Blessing - Charisma bonus is added to saves

Devil Strike - The Blackguard attacks and strikes the soul. Deals 2x blackguard level damage with Charisma bonus to AB. Usable twice a day per level of blackguard.

Fiendish Regeneration - Blackguard gains fast healing 1

Hell Strength - Once per day, the Blackguard gains +4 strength for 10 turns.

Enflame Weapon - Once per day, the Blackguard can bless a weapon with 1d4 fire damage for 10 turns

Summon Fiend - The Blackguard can summon a devil once per day.

Aura of Flame - Once per day, a blackguard can project an aura of flame that deals 1d4 fire damage for 5 turns.

Path of Bone
1) Dark Blessing, Low Blow
2) Summon Skeletons, Unholy touch 2/day
3) Souldrinker, Evil Presence
4) Summon Skeleton Warrior

Low Blow - Blackguard gains 1d6 sneak attack damage

Summon Skeletons - The Blackguard can summon 3 skeletons for 15 turns once per day to do their bidding

Unholy Touch - Twice per day the blackguard can inflict Twice their level x their charisma bonus negative damage. Will heal undead.

Souldrinker - Once/day for 15 turns, the Blackguard's weapon gains Vampiric Regeneration 2.

Evil Presence - Once/day, the character can activate a large aura for 3 turns per level of Blackguard. Evil creatures inside the area gain +2 AB, whilst Good creatures suffer -2 AB.

Summon Skeleton Warrior - The Blackguard can summon a skeleton warrior for 10 turns.



This provides a mixture of old and new, and would require a good deal more coding effort to bring to fruition. The first thing to notice is that this provides a blackguard two paths, which would be chosen upon taking their first level.

Path of Blood is more devilish, and focuses on self-buffing and on inflicting damage. Fast Healing 1 is extremely strong, by design, and will allow a character that goes this route to recover from anything that does not kill them outright. However, it will not be enough to save them if they are overwhelmed and rendered unconscious. At 8 they can summon a devil in, which will also make them kill on sight. Devil Strike allows them the equivalent of a paladin's smite, but usable on all enemies.

Path of Bone is more undead themed, and allows summoning skeleton meat shields which are then buffed by evil presence. 1d6 sneak attack dice and low blow encourage this variety of blackguard to flank, which is improved once they gain souldrinker for vampiric weapon. Unholy touch allows this type of blackguard to heal their minions or harm a living enemy.

As a general theme, this provides stronger and more focused options, and somewhat more universal requirements.


Sword Leader

Requirements: Ride 7, Sense Motive 3, BAB+4, Great Shield Proficiency

1) Rallying Cry, Heroic Shield 1
2) Inspire Courage 1 2x/day
3) Aura of Fear, Heroic Shield 2
4) Final Stand*

*Provides 3d10 temporary hp and +2 AC instead

Heroic shield 1 - Provides half the benefit for the same cost as currently. Benefit is rounded down. Tower shields are 2 for 2, large and smaller are 1 for 1
Heroic shield 2 - As it is now

Again, the requirements were lowered to allow this PRC to be taken earlier so all four levels can be completed, and heroic shield rewards further investment in the class instead of giving one of the strongest abilities it offers immediately. Final Stand was reduced in power but allowed at level 8. For Paladin this means they could choose Divine Grace or Final stand, not both, and should represent a difficult choice between two good options, which is my idea of good design.

To be continued...

[Kerstman]

This is quite interesting. I would be just as fine with all the PrC progression finding a place in an E8 system, but indeed the situation that PrC's were initially developed for level 12 is one of my major concerns for this E8 system. I would also add that some of the requirements for the PrC's should be altered if these suggestions of Toros shall be implemented. For instance : Spirit Caller optimal base class somehow does not involve the sorcerer and this is something I do not fully understand. Which means that unlike some other classes at level 4, the sorceror can by no means take the SC PrC sooner than when it has 5 Sorceror levels. Now if indeed all the PrC's are revamped to 4 levels and the base class requirements are not changed then I would be quite sad to simply not be able to get the most out of the one PrC that I play, with a very fitting base class and style to it I may say so.

[Toros]

This is quite interesting. I would be just as fine with all the PrC progression finding a place in an E8 system, but indeed the situation that PrC's were initially developed for level 12 is one of my major concerns for this E8 system. I would also add that some of the requirements for the PrC's should be altered if these suggestions of Toros shall be implemented. For instance : Spirit Caller optimal base class somehow does not involve the sorcerer and this is something I do not fully understand. Which means that unlike some other classes at level 4, the sorceror can by no means take the SC PrC sooner than when it has 5 Sorceror levels. Now if indeed all the PrC's are revamped to 4 levels and the base class requirements are not changed then I would be quite sad to simply not be able to get the most out of the one PrC that I play, with a very fitting base class and style to it I may say so.

I will be adding a rework of the Spirit Caller class as well that addresses many of these concerns as well as allowing Recall Spirit in a dangerous form that will require the aid of others to be successful.

[Loreweaver]

Thank you, I look forward to seeing the rest of the thread.
There are a couple of likely scenarios for PrCs assuming we use an E8 system:

- The requirements are lowered so all 5-6 levels can be taken by level 8. This however would take away from the 'prestige' part of the class because it would take relatively little to qualify. It would also need tweaking because a Wizard 2/Highmage 6 for example would be unable to use most of their abilities, whilst a Monk 2/Skincarver 6 can use spell-like abilities more in line with a level 11 than a level 8 PC.

- The level 2-6 properties of each PrC are converted to E8 feat choices. If necessary for balance, there would be additional feat taxes in the form of 'empty' feats with effects like "count as level 3 for purposes of qualifying for Spirit Caller feats" or "Count as 2 levels higher for purposes of Sword Leader activated abilities. This cannot raise your level over 6."

- The classes are compressed and rebalanced for a maximum level of 8. This will usually mean that signature abilities are granted earlier but secondary benefits are lost. For example, the Arcane Archer might keep Enchant Arrow III and Imbue Arrow for spells up to level 2, while losing the once/day abilities, only receiving 4 HP/level and forfeiting their primary Fortitude save.

I have every confidence that we'd find a good solution so I'm not too worried about having to adjust these, but there is no doubt it would take a good amount of work. Concrete suggestions like these are therefore more than welcome.

[Tailos]

Can't say I'm any good with the mechanics at all so I can't add any real suggestions. That being said, increasing the power of evil PrCs sounds like a fantastic idea! More villains is more fun!

[WingsOfStardust]

Personally, I think these changes are nice and as Tailos mentioned; evil getting more power on TER is a wonderful thing.

[Obsidian Sea]

Thank you for starting up a thread for this, Toros. I had meant to make one of my own, although it does not strictly concern rebalancing classes for an E8 system, due to the current uncertainty regarding what such a system would look like. Alas, time and forgetfulness conspired against me.

I would be reluctant to see the level at which PrC classes become available being lowered, unless we implemented some kind of limit as to how many PCs/how many PCs with PrCs each player would be allowed. There is something rather uninspiring and immersion-breaking for our low magic server about the prospect of having several Spirit Callers, High Mages, Blackguards and Triadic Knights wandering around without due investment of time and effort, as would not especially be required if these classes could be picked up by level 4.

But that is all an aside to one of the more irksome concerns I have had in recent weeks. A small one, but regardless--

Could we remove Dodge as a requirement for the Weapon Master PrC? At present, any race except human must throw all of their feat opportunities at meeting the requirements for this class, unless they are a Fighter. Whilst this PrC caters mostly to the Fighter class, that is not the only class which might benefit from it, and I just don't see how Dodge is all that relevant to the training needed for the PrC, or how it shows up again as relevant in the class features of the PrC.

[Poisonous]

I also agree with evil PRCs getting a little more love. The abilities look fun.

[Toros]

-snip-

I'm not that concerned about too many of any prestige class being taken simply because LW has done a wonderful job lf making the base classes appealing to take pure. Under this system a High mage 4 would give up a full spell level and not have access to normal level 4 spellcasting. That means they can't ever cast stoneskin.

Spirit caller 4 would give up all spellcasting above level 2, and while it is a more unusual set of talents I wouldn't claim it is a more magical set.

I will get to weapon master eventually, but progress is slow because I need to understand the class's mechanics for balance, understand why people would like to play it, and try to retain the signature abilities taking balance into consideration. Then I check to see if the requirements are reasonable.

Currently I'm working on spirit caller, but will eventually finish the rest.

[Kerstman]

I also think that there shall be plenty of players and characters who shall not touch the PrC's simply because they favor the base classes in a single- or multiclass form. PrC's offer prestige and specialisms but rarely they shall make a character mechanically stronger than the base classes would. They all provide advantages as well as disadvantages, so I too am not too concerned that even with lowered requirements we shall see more PrC's than base PC's.

Evil PrC's getting more love is something I can agree with, but I would also enjoy seeing evil base PC's just the same and perhaps they also should deserve a little extra. But that shall be hard to do without affecting the nonevil base classes. Just a thought raised and I'd welcome input from others on it, because I cannot think of the right answer right now.