Stat Loss - The way it is applied

[Feronius]

The short of that is yes, it's possible, but it would render INT loss almost inconsequential for almost everyone.

Isn't that also the case with Charisma for lots of characters though? Every PC has 1 or more stats that barely do anything for them.

[Loreweaver]

No, not quite.

An INT debuff affects wizard spells, death attack DCs and the modifiers for Appraise, Disable Device, Search, Spellcraft, and Knowledge.
Clearly wizards are affected, as well as some rare PrCs. Appraise is a bard/rogue class skill, Disable Device is a rogue class skill, Search is most useful in tandem with rogue class skills, the Spellcraft save bonus is unaffected but it may mean slightly more enemy spells are not identified when cast, and Knowledge is universal of course but rarely a make or break skill where every point counts. Because of this, the skill-based rogue and, to lesser extent, bard classes have most to lose from the skill penalties.
But I'd say that losing one or two points in most of these skills isn't going to impact much, beyond a rogue's ability to disarm or recover certain traps perhaps.

CHA debuffs affect bard and sorcerer spells, merchant prices, paladin and blackguard saving throws, smite attempts, turn undead attempts, duration of divine might/shield and priest domain powers, the modifiers for Animal Handling, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform and Use Magic Device and also many innate ability DCs. Animal Handling is a druid/ranger skill which can pacify enemies, Bluff is a bard/rogue skill with a combat use, Diplomacy is fairly open but not usually critical outside DM events, Intimidate is a barbarian/fighter (amongst others) skill with a combat use, Perform is relevant to bard songs, and UMD is a rogue/bard skill again which allows use of scrolls and wands for instance - not every point counts there, but every five points do.
A CHA debuff is therefore more relevant to combat than an INT debuff for almost all classes. The Monk doesn't really mind either way. For many other base classes it depends on the build, but CHA is much more integrated than INT is.
It's still a relatively tame loss if you're not a bard or sorcerer, but there's usually something you can use CHA for. INT's value is almost exclusively found in the level-up process.

[Silver Snow]

I'd like to propose that we set up a poll for this process; just talking it out isn't really showing where support for certain ideas really is. We can discuss what the current options are, make those the choices, and a moderator can set the poll up? I know that in relation to this issue a few of the options off the top of my head are:
A) Stat Loss is applied as a debuff (pending LW saying that it's actually possible to implement)
B) INT is removed as a stat able to be lost upon death
C) Stats lost can be removed independently for lower cost (3-4 Balan)
D) No Change whatsoever

I in general would like more use of polls in these threads. I think it's much more democratic, shows the DMs who actually supports what (right now it's mostly the loudest voices, which doesn't lead to solutions, just more argument), and because it doesn't take a written post is easier for people to comprehend and quickly submit an opinion rather than, again, just the most strongly opinionated.

[Feronius]

When not affecting skills and feats, Int loss may almost exclusively harm Wizards. True. But Wizards are also the least affected by other stat losses. I think it balances out fairly well. I'm actually surprised at how many non-Wizard things Int loss would still affect.

Not including Int in the stat loss process also changes the chance to lose a point in the physical stats from 6 in 1 to 5 in 1, which would be even more unfair towards every single other class that isn't a Wizard. Especially those on the front line, who already risk the most.