Raise Dead - Scaling Costs (and Corpse Weight)

[Feronius]

Edit: To quickly summarize this thread - Loot and profit scale with level, raise dead costs do not. Either both should or neither, imo.


There is no way a characters would be able to get their hands on a Balan before hitting level 3 or 4, unless they piggybacked along on (several) successful dungeon trips with high level groups. The cost of raising a fallen comrade is currently not realistic (near impossible to afford) until you reach the mid to higher levels. The server economy/ rate at which you gain money simply does not support paying for a raise at a low level.
There is currently no alternative means to come back to live on this server, players just hit a dead end if they die before earning a Balan.

On top of that, a lot of character corpses (especially the heavy armour users) weigh a lot. As a result most of their low level party members could not carry or drag them back to the priest, even when they do have the money to afford the raise.


My suggestion is to scale the costs of raising dead characters according to level. And to also lower the overall weight of corpses.
Corpses of lower level characters would cost less money to be raised at a priest. And it would no longer require a powerhouse character with high strength stats to drag a corpse back to safety. Realistically you would drag the bodies anyway, not carry the full weight.

There is undoubtedly some IC reason to justify these changes. The wounds being less serious and grave as you have yet to face the truly dreadful monsters, the adventurer in question having gained less (in)famy and thus being charged less by priests, etc.
There is not much of an IC argument why low level parties find less treasure than high level parties who visit the exact same place either, but we all know that it's just an element of the game. I imagine a similar line of thought would probably apply here?
Mostly, it would be an OoC change to prevent players from (involuntarily) dropping their character before they hit level 4.

For example: lvl 1 = 2 Halanth, lvl 2 = 4 Halanth, lvl 3 = 8 Halanth, lvl 4 = 16 Halanth, lvl 5+ = 1 Balan


Relying on the generosity of higher level players (who haven't even met your character yet) is just not a viable workaround.
Outside of it being blatant metagaming/ OoC in nearly all cases, 1 Balan is a lot of money even for most mid to higher levels. They can not bail out or loan money to every single low level character that dies. So something's gotta give.

[Vogelens]

Lighter corpses could be explained as characters using workhorses/cars/shapeshifted druids into oxes or whatever to carry it back. It would be viable RP and works IC, but the mechanics do not really allow many of these things right now, unfortunatly.

[Feronius]

I came across a level 2's corpse recently with my own level 2, who has 15 Str and a very decent carrying capacity.
Thought I would at least give the guy a proper burial, but I could not move the body nor bury him where he died.

[Loreweaver]

I have to say I don't really recognize this as an issue.
Of the last 250 PCs created, spanning over eight months, only three are currently dead. They are indeed low level PCs and may well be poor, and I'm sure their players are sad to see their characters go. But I find no indication that corpses are often too expensive to raise.
Also, even the heaviest corpses (those of PCs who died while greatly overencumbered) are still within the capacity of a STR 14 character, although they won't be carrying much else at the same time. Since STR 14 is not particularly rare and strength-enhancers are available, I'm confident that the weight is not an insurmountable hurdle.

[Feronius]

Those stats can't be right. I can think of two PCs off the top of my head who died in just the last month alone and are still dead.
Not to mention the number of players that may have given up after being raised, losing all progress to a single death is rough.

My character had 15 Strength and not all that much in his inventory, outside of the equipment he was wearing, and could not carry the corpse of another PC. I could not even move. Of course I did not try stripping my PC and I have no idea how encumbered they were.

[Silver Snow]

I also can't believe that stat's not missing something. I can certainly think of about 5 gravestones added in the last 8 months. I think this could be a subtle but positive change. Right now there is a very very small playerbase in the NA timezone, and sometimes a few odd lower level players around the Euro times when others aren't. As it stands players levels 1-3 can't adequately support each other. This has always been an issue and leads to frustration of early players while not at all being a problem to those of medium to higher level. It weeds people out, and I think with a community this small, it's a poor reason and method of doing so.

[Toros]

There's two separate issues going on here.

The first is corpse weight, and I think a solution that would work well is being able to buy a simple sled that had significant weight, but could be equipped in the weapon slot giving a penalty to AC, AB, and movement speed but providing a significant increase in carry capacity. (Maybe something like 50lb weight, gives 100lb carrying capacity while equipped, -10 AC and -10 AB).

This I think would make it much easier to recover corpses, should be fairly easy to code in, and have a reasonable risk/reward.

As far as the cost of a raise, I strongly disagree that you will be mid level before you acquire that much coin. I have never had issues with making money nor have I seen anyone competent have issues with making money.

[Feronius]

Carrying a sled around through dungeons would be a bit weird if you ask me. Wouldn't that just make dying even more likely?

But perhaps being able to hire some kind of pack ox or mule could work? The problem, with both of ideas, is that players would probably just use it to haul more loot out of dungeons rather than using it for its intended purpose.
Lowering the carry weight (under the excuse of dragging) is a much simpler solution. And a lot less work to implement.


In my experience, low level dungeons are not very rewarding. Most characters would only get a Balan after completing their first 20-30 dungeons, assuming they have a level appropriate party. Maybe if you have a full party (4-6 members), if you make no mistakes, if you use up almost no supplies, if you do a lot of the longer/ higher reward dungeons and if you save up all your money. Then you could do it a lot faster. But those are a lot of "if's" and there are usually not even that many low levels/ players online.
I would like to hear your secret, I always spend money faster than I make it during the first few levels. An identification kit is a few silver, armour can cost up to a Balan, you need to restock on kits and potions, pay for inn rooms, etc. Which all uses up most of the profit.

Basically, you just have to not die within the first dozen(s of) dungeons? I personally don't find that a realistic standard for new players.

[Toros]

Carrying a sled around through dungeons would be a bit weird if you ask me. Wouldn't that just make dying even more likely?

But perhaps being able to hire some kind of pack ox or mule could work? The problem, with both of ideas, is that players would probably just use it to haul more loot out of dungeons rather than using it for its intended purpose.
Lowering the carry weight (under the excuse of dragging) is a much simpler solution. And a lot less work to implement.

It's not a sled so much that I'd be describing as a collapsible travois. Accomplishes the same thing and was used by native americans to solve the problem of moving heavy goods without having to carry it, and they can be attached to horses or dogs.

In my experience, low level dungeons are not very rewarding. Most characters would only get a Balan after completing their first 20-30 dungeons, assuming they have a level appropriate party. Maybe if you have a full party (4-6 members), if you make no mistakes, if you use up almost no supplies, if you do a lot of the longer/ higher reward dungeons and if you save up all your money. Then you could do it a lot faster. But those are a lot of "if's" and there are usually not even that many low levels/ players online.
I would like to hear your secret, I always spend money faster than I make it during the first few levels. An identification kit is a few silver, armour can cost up to a Balan, you need to restock on kits and potions, pay for inn rooms, etc. Which all uses up most of the profit.

Basically, you just have to not die within the first dozen(s of) dungeons? I personally don't find that a realistic standard for new players.

You're making a lot of assumptions. Low levels should really never be in a situation where they die and need to pay for a raise. The respawn timer is (level*level)/2. Meaning it goes from 1 day, 2 days, 4.5 days, 8 days, 12.5 days, 18 days, 24.5 days, 32 days. Other than healing supplies, you're much better off using found equipment rather than buying it (or negotiating something with a higher level.) You'll have expenses for healing supplies but it should never be negative or you're taking on content that is too difficult.

Jerek has needed to be raised once (outside of OOC testing), and has had perhaps 3-4 respawns over that time period which luckily didn't apply stat damage. For many dungeons healing cost was 0 due to high AC, good tactics, self-healing, and often working with a dedicated healer.

Exploring can get a character quite close to level 3 with just a few dungeons, at which point doing mid-level content is possible. You might be relatively poor if you don't explore, aren't more careful while you can't respawn, and don't tag along on a safe mid-high level dungeon. I know of one character that died frequently yet not only could pay for raises but also for the 10k full restoration afterward.

[Feronius]

I recently started a new PC (twice) and did a ton of exploring from Filur to Vlasta to Songhall. I almost got to level 2 from it in the end, already stretching what you can safely explore as a low level character, but I was still miles (around 2000XP?) off from level 3.
I would take less risks exploring past level 1, or even at level 1 with the chance of stat loss, because a single misstep can result in catastrophe. One you can not afford (literally) or get out of without the charity and aid of a higher level PC. Hence this suggestion.

The assumption that low levels have all this healing, ideal tanking and ideal parties at their disposal is often far removed from reality and the current playerbase, not to mention the players in less active timezones that find it trying to put together any parties at all.


Most deaths happen at level 2-3. And almost none of them (or their party members) seem to be able to afford the raise dead cost.
It's clear that something isn't quite adding up or working as intended. I don't understand how this can be viewed as a non-issue.