DM Porting

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Kerstman
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DM Porting

Postby Kerstman » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:40 pm

This one is mostly one for the team,

Recently I have noticed the DM team has a policy about porting PC's or rather not porting them. In the past this has happened so my first suggestion is that if there is indeed a change of approach the playerbase is best informed of such. I did not see an update about that yet.

The second suggestion is to in fact allow ports under specific circumstances. Sometimes there are dungeon runs where the party is very deep in. There are amazing vast networks of caves and wild terrain that need a lot of navigating before you are back in a safe location. We are all humans with our daily rhytms and then there are the terrors of timezones which makes the one player needing to log off sooner than the other. In such a case I think a port for the player who needs to go is very much valid and greatly appreciated. Also I see it having none impact on any IG happenings. Yes, it is meta. But not all meta is bad. If it were we'd not be in parties all too often and we should throw the @locate command overboard. It is still a game that is about having fun, but having it while being immersed in the setting and roleplaying your character. This roleplay is in my opinion barely disrupted by something like a port. It is just one of the meta / OOC conveniences that make the game more easily playable and enjoyable without causing harm.
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Obsidian Sea
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Re: DM Porting

Postby Obsidian Sea » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:11 pm

It was discussed by the DM team recently, but the bottom line that has changed the idea of the team about the matter is the expanding size of the player base. Porting was very common to include everybody on the server in a dungeon run or to get them out of a dungeon run when it was common for server parties to happen: the server was only expecting 5-8 people on the weekends, and based on staggered log in times, this was the only way to really get people involved if they showed up after a dungeon incentive had been placed.

Nowadays, however, we are lucky enough to have a larger group of players who can log in more often. If we were to continue to offer that service it can either cause DMs to be bothered for ports when they are on as players; or suggest that bringing somebody with access to the DMC on your dungeon run is going to be a convenient time-saver somewhere down the line, whilst parties that don't bring a DM with them will lose out on that potential advantage. Controversies about favouritism, as some long-time NWN online players might be able to imagine, threaten to ensue.

Furthermore, porting in this way can also mitigate the intended consequences of taking every last piece of loot out of a dungeon and leaving yourself majorly encumbered. It also means that there is no real consequence, immersion realism or visual experience to wanting to venture into the deep, dark and unknown yonder, so that some of the more exciting and mysterious dungeons might as well be put by the front door step. Therefore, it was ultimately agreed that DM ports should be saved for limited use: that is, to accommodate moving the narrative forth in a DM storyline when deemed appropriate, or to get players to a particular location so that a DM storyline can begin on time and everybody involved doesn't risk running out of time or being kept at their screens for much longer than intended.
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Kerstman
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Re: DM Porting

Postby Kerstman » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:44 pm

Thanks for the quick reply and the clarification. You raise some very fair points. I fully agree that the Team should not accommodate heavily encumbered parties with a port. Also a port is always a courtesy from the DM and never should they be bothered with it. Personally I have an allergy against bothering DM's with DM related tells when they are on as players.

However, I still believe that a port is very welcomed if the offer is made and when this or that Player really has to log off for RL issues but he / she is stuck far away and deep in the wilds and the rest of the party wishes to continue. The time-saving argument goes for non-DM events all the same in my opinion, but obviously less freely so. I'd still always be against porting folks -to- a dungeon. Also I am speaking here of only porting an individual PC / player rather than the whole party. I hope that is clear.

As for favouritism. Perhaps I am naive, but aren't we all mature enough to not be overly envious at the one or the other when it comes to such minor but much appreciated gestures? Yes if we'd count the ports over the last year some players may have gotten them more often than others, but I have not noticed any complaints about such. Perhaps you did and I understand you're always on the receiving end of player complaints. However, this still seems like such a minor issue to me that I'd still support the initial suggestion. There are dedicated NWN players who love TER but who have less time for a dungeon run due to RL time constraints. When a DM is in the position to give this little gesture I see absolutely no harm in doing it. It should never be expected by a player, but I do not believe that putting a full stop on player ports outside DM events is the best outcome.
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Re: DM Porting

Postby Highlander » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:18 pm

I agree with Kerst's views, and it is also possible for the player who has to log to wait for a reset to get their PC out of a distant location, which could be viewed as equally immersion breaking to being ported out, but without the user friendliness of having that PC available the next day, if that was wished.
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Toros
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Re: DM Porting

Postby Toros » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:47 pm

Highlander wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:18 pm
I agree with Kerst's views, and it is also possible for the player who has to log to wait for a reset to get their PC out of a distant location, which could be viewed as equally immersion breaking to being ported out, but without the user friendliness of having that PC available the next day, if that was wished.
If a player has travelled to a distant location and is lazy/doesn't have the time/planned poorly and is not available the next day as a result, I see that as completely a fair and natural consequence.
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Re: DM Porting

Postby blatob » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:25 pm

You know how it goes, no plan survives the first 10 seconds of contact with the enemy. The same goes, really, with adventuring. Plan as you might, you find that one player goes afk, then other (that is so often case with me), due to real life reasons, then there's rp, and soon, you see that things are progressing far slower then it is planned.

You warn others in advance, but they want to continue, and you do not know IC or OOC way back through some maze of tunnels filled with enemies, etc. and you end up with logging off in the middle of hostile grounds, with no safe route back, especially if your PC is rather squishy. That locks PC away for next few days, until there is a reset. And that is the scenario that happened last night, for instance.

In my opinion, that breaks rp like hell, especialy if it happens to be player's only PC. And honestly, about IC, as Kerstman pointed, we have @locate command. So, the point of porting is not about allowing them to reach dungeon or grab the loot, but rather getting PCs out of the tight spot caused by real life reasons. And I would die of envy of anyone who tells me that they could plan their evening so thorough that they will have no OOC problems that could cut their time short or made them go afk, thus making others in the party waiting. Anyone who can do this is my god. Tvoje ime sja sa ramena mog.

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Re: DM Porting

Postby ljuslek » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:24 pm

I'll dip my toes in to say that many valid reasons indeed have been given for not offering teleports as frequently as they may have been offered in the past. In the example discussed above, however, of a player having to leave an ongoing dungeon venture a DM is overlooking, actively or passively, I don't see a reason for not offering the courtesy of a port to safe or at least safer ground. The remaining party members being 'required' to emote taking time to do that, and potentially suffering some manner of consequence or arrested progress as a result can even benefit role-play.

Though I do of course appreciate how having a general policy must make things less difficult to deal with for those of you on the DM client, and that's not to be underestimated.

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Khaela Mensha Khaine
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Re: DM Porting

Postby Khaela Mensha Khaine » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:28 am

The reason that the team had a discussion recently is due to ports for convenience becoming more and more frequent. It was intended as a friendly gesture from the DMs to players, but it was beginning to become noticeable that it was almost becoming expected of the team to offer ports because people were running out of time to play and still had a long way to journey back to the nearest vendor to sell loot, or some other similar issue.

As Obsidian Sea said, there are a few concerns with this; perceived nepotism and immersion-breaking being two of them. Dungeon runs are, also, one of the main parts of the server. A large part of that experience is the journey to them and the journey back, which provides RP opportunities for characters to bond or clash and so forth. Sometimes the journey is the biggest part of RP in these ventures, as the dungeons themselves are often too hectic and dangerous to RP beyond a few words here or there, unless the group takes a breather mid-dungeon to chat. It would be detrimental to the server to pull away from that, and ultimately players would grow bored.
Think of fast travel in games like Skyrim, despite seeming like a great idea you miss out on so much content because of laziness. If the option isn't there, it might sometimes feel like a chore, but ultimately you are increasing the overall experience and opportunities for a lot of great RP and fun. Who knows what might happen, even after you log out miles away from Sarshel, making your own way back on another day? You may find that you log back in and you're closer to Vlasta, for example, where everyone just so happens to be.

There are few dungeons that are so deep that allowing yourself 5-10 minutes of leeway - in terms of your available play time - shouldn't circumvent. There also aren't too many dungeons that are so vast or complex that the current playerbase don't know their way out, or at the very least can't retrace their steps out (which also will be the quickest and safest, as respawns take a long time.) If you also don't pay attention to the way you've come, it might be argued that it's your own fault for not being able to make your way out - but that's more of a personal opinion.

Having said all this, I don't think any DM would take issue with porting a player to the entrance of a dungeon if that's their request because they desperately need to leave as soon as possible. Failing that, most people have at least one DM on Skype or Discord who could arrange to log in just before the player ready for a port to get them to the entrance.

Edit: I should clarify that I meant no DM would take issue with porting a player who is already in a dungeon to the entrance of that specific dungeon, not port someone who is already in safe territory to the entrance of a dungeon because they don't have the time to get there and complete it.

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Re: DM Porting

Postby blatob » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:44 am

Of course, I think it is agreeable to port people in such circumstances to the latest (relatively) safe area, so they can log and return to civilization on the next oportunity. In the dungeon complex, it could mean porting people over several areas, depending on dungeon, also taken into account that spawns may or may not exist based on the time of the day, or even bugs - as happened, when, due to my mistake, area have reset prematurely.

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Kerstman
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Re: DM Porting

Postby Kerstman » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:41 pm

I can fully agree with Khaine's views on the matter. It boils down to common sense from both a DM and player perspective and that's all I meant to ask with this suggestion.
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