Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

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bestbardna
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Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby bestbardna » Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:59 pm

Hello Everyone!

I've recently returned to the server, playing my dedicated Monk Healer Seggor Petska. Lock up your chairs, boys and girls. He's coming.

In all seriousness, though. Let me start by saying that this server is one of the best I've seen. The encounters are challenging, the areas are gorgeous, and the class rebalancing is pretty darned tight! Not to mention the staff are consistently cool. Even though I'm about to go on a mini rant about a particular feature of the server, I don't want anyone to think I don't appreciate all the hard work the staff have put into the game.

I've been thinking about Healing Kits, what they cost, how much they heal, and comparing them to other healing options available throughout the module. On first glance, it certainly feels as though Healing Kits/Treatment Kits are underpowered, but since DND is Math, I think it's best to use Math to figure this out. There is a wall of text and numbers coming. Prepare your bodies.



Healing Options!


This is the part where we break down the various healing options present in the module, and give an average HP gained to GP cost ratio (Otherwise known as HP:GP). Meaning that if a healing option has a HP:GP ratio of 0.5, then for every gold piece (sardil) you spend on that method, you gain 0.5 HP! We'll also include some pros and cons with each method. For the purposes of fairness, we will not include options like resting, or healing spells cast by other players.



Cure Spells from NPC Clerics:
Average Cost: 25gp
Healing Range: 18-60 HP [4d8+8 x 1.5 HP (Healing Domain)].
Average: 39 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio: 1.56

Pros:
-Great HP per GP Ratio.
-Very High HP Healed.
-Instant Healing.
-No skill/character investment

Cons:
-Only available in specific areas scattered throughout the module


Revitalizing Tonic:
Average Cost: 45gp (40-50gp)
Healing Range: 11 HP
Average: 11 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio: 0.24

Pros:
-Consistent.
-Easily available.
-No skill/character investment

Cons:
-Have to purchase them.
-Heals slowly over time.

Cure Minor Wounds Tonics:
Average Cost: 17.5gp (15-20)
Healing Range: 4 HP
Average: 4 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio:0.22

Pros:
-Easily Available
-Instant Healing
-No skill/character investment to use effectively.
-Can be used in battle.

Cons:
-Have to be purchased

Cure Light Wounds Tonics:
Average Cost: 45gp (40-50gp)
Healing Range: 3-10 HP (Cure Light Wounds)
Average: 6.5 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio: 0.18

Pros:
-Easily Available
-Instant Healing
-No skill/character investment to use effectively.
-Can be used in battle.

Cons:
-Have to be purchased

Cure Moderate Wounds Tonics:
Average Cost: 95gp (90-100gp)
Healing Range: 10-24 HP
Average: 17 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio: 0.17

Pros:
-Easily Available
-Instant Healing
-No skill/character investment to use effectively.
-Can be used in battle.

Cons:
-Have to be purchased


Found Cure Light Wounds Tonics:
Average Cost: 3gp (From Identification costs via kit)
Healing Range: 3-10 HP (Cure Light Wounds)
Average: 6.5 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio: 2.16gp (If relying on hired PCs to identify items for 10gp each, then ratio reduced to 0.65)

Pros:
-Extremely cheap
-Instant Healing
-No skill/character investment to use effectively.
-Can be used in battle.

Cons:
-Have to be found, but are extremely common.
-If you want to ID them yourself, requires minor non-exclusive skill investment*



Found Cure Minor Wounds Tonics:
Average Cost: 3gp (From Identification costs via kit)
Healing Range: 4 HP (Cure Minor Wounds)
Average: 4 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio: 1.3gp (If relying on hired PCs to identify items for 10gp each, then ratio reduced to 0.4)

Pros:
-Extremely cheap
-Instant Healing
-No skill/character investment to use effectively.
-Can be used in battle.

Cons:
-Have to be found, but are extremely common.
-If you want to ID them yourself, requires minor non-exclusive skill investment*

Found Revitalizing Tonic:
Average Cost: 3gp (From Identification costs via kit)
Healing Range: 11 HP
Average: 11 HP.
Average HP:GP Ratio: 3.6 (If relying on hired PCs to identify items for 10gp each, then ratio reduced to 1.1)

Pros:
-Extremely cheap
-No skill/character investment to use effectively.

Cons:
-Have to be found
-Heals slowly over time.
-If you want to ID them yourself, requires minor non-exclusive skill investment*


Found Healing Kits:
Average Cost: Free!
Healing Range: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below.
Average: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below
Average HP:GP Ratio: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below

Pros:
- Potentially heals a great many HP.

Cons:
- Have to be found, and are extremely uncommon.
- Requires major exclusive** skill investment to use effectively.
- Heals slowly over time.
- Penalty to treating yourself.
- Healing stops if you take further damage.


Healing Kits:
Average Cost: 55gp (50-60gp)
Healing Range: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below.
Average: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below
Average HP:GP Ratio: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below

Pros:
- Potentially heals a great many HP.
- Easily Available

Cons:
- Have to be purchased.
- Requires major exclusive** skill investment to use effectively.
- Heals slowly over time.
- Penalty to treating yourself.
- Healing stops if you take further damage.


Treatment Kit:
Average Cost: 130gp (125gp-135gp) (10 Charges, around 13gp per charge)
Healing Range: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below.
Average: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below
Average HP:GP Ratio: Dependent on Skill Level, see chart below

Pros:
- Instant Healing
- Easily Available

Cons:
- Have to be purchased.
- Requires major exclusive** skill investment to use effectively.
- Without exclusive** skill investment, may do nothing or harm the target.
- Unable to treat yourself.
- Unable to use in Combat.


* Identification skills can be used to identify a multitude of items, not just potions. These other items can be sold for large profits. This does not include usage in DM events, just base play.
** The Heal Skill is an exclusive skill, and can only be used to make Heal Checks. This does not include usage in DM events, just base play.



Breakdown of Healing Kits and Treatment Kits!

This is the part where we dive deep into the guts of the healing skill, and the HP:GP ratios of the healing kit and the treatment kit! For ease of reference, the other healing options GP to HP ratio will be provided below for comparison.

NPC Healing: 1.56 (Instant Heal)
Revitalizing Tonic: 0.24 (Slow heal)
Found Cure Minor Wounds Tonics: 1.3 (If relying on hired PCs to identify items for 10gp each, then ratio reduced to 0.4) (Instant Heal)
Found Cure Light Wounds Tonics: 2.16 (If relying on hired PCs to identify items for 10gp each, then ratio reduced to 0.65) (Instant Heal)
Found Revitalizing Tonic: 3.6 (If relying on hired PCs to identify items for 10gp each, then ratio reduced to 1.1) (Slow Heal)
Cure Minor Wounds Tonic: 0.22
Cure Light Wounds Tonic: 0.18
Cure Moderate Wounds Tonic: 0.17


Image

Image

***NOTE: The maximum presented here does not include gear that can be obtained in game that can provide bonuses to heal, or spell effects that provide bonuses to wisdom/skills.***

Without commenting on the results themselves, let's look back at our HP:GP ratios for the other options, and note at what skill level the average Healing Kit and Treatment kit has the same level of value.

NPC Healing: It doesn't (That's not necessarily a bad thing)
Revitalizing Tonic: +3 for Healing Kits, +10 for Treatment Kits
Found Cure Minor Wounds: +12 for Healing Kits, +17 for Treatment Kits (Only when assuming you pay other PCs to identify your tonics. If you identify your own tonics, then it won't ever reach).
Found Cure Light Wounds: Neither one reaches the HP:GP ratio for these tonics, regardless of whether you pay another PC to ID them, or do it yourself.
Found Revitalizing Tonic: Neither one reaches the HP:GP ratio for these tonics, regardless of whether you pay another PC to ID them, or do it yourself.
Cure Minor Wounds Tonic: Healing kits reach this efficiency at +2 Heal, and Treatment Kits reach it at +8 Heal
Cure Light Wounds Tonic: Healing kits reach this efficiency at +0 Heal, and Treatment Kits reach it at +7 Heal
Cure Moderate Wounds Tonic: Healing Kits reach this efficiency at +0 Heal, and Treatment Kits reach it at +7 Heal


No doubt, there will be some discussion as to whether or not found tonics are a fair comparison to make against purchased healing kits. Granted, they do need to be found in dungeons, but they're actually quite common. Revitalizing tonics are rarer than the curatives, I've found, but I still encounter them with surprising frequency. In fact, I have more healing tonics that I've picked up in my past few adventures than I do healing kits, and that's after throwing a bunch at Bailey. So I would argue that yes, they are common enough to be considered consistent for this comparison.

But what is an acceptable buff? What would give them enough of a boost that wouldn't upset the delicate balance of the server? It's a complicated question, but it's important to know what actually goes into making a dedicated healer, and then we can discuss what might be done with them.


The Best Healer?
And no, I'm not talking about Mother Kelda.


First off, what sort of investment is required for someone to be the best healer?

Well that's very simple. It's a level 8 character, with the maximum (11) ranks in heal, the maximum (20) Wisdom Score, Skill Focus (Heal), Greater Skill Focus (Heal), and Herbalist. This gives a very respectable bonus of +26 to heal checks. But if you think about it, it's much more than that.

If you have 20 wisdom, that means you're either a divine caster (who has access to the vastly superior Cure/Regeneration spells WHICH ARE ALSO FREE, and honestly, you can boost your skills/wisdom even higher with your spells), or you're a character who's ignored your other ability scores for this specific niche concept.

If you have max skill ranks, it means you've spent valuable skill points for a skill that costs you money to use. Compare that to a divine caster who can heal better than you for free (as they should) and still get all the other benefits of levelling up in a divine caster class (like all the other spells they get).

If you've spent 3 of your 3 (4 if you're a human) bonus feats on Skill Focus (Heal), Greater Skill Focus (Heal), and Herbalist, you're sacrificing 75-100% of your available feats on getting a +10 bonus to heal, instead of taking feats that make you better at combat, or casting spells, or sneaking around, or picking locks.

It's an incredibly steep investment, for very little payoff. You get even less payoff if you use treatment kits instead of healing kits. Not only can you not use them on yourself, but the HP:GP ratio is even less than healing kits. At no point in your career is it better to use a treatment kit over a healing kit, and until you have a +11 bonus to healing, your treatment kit could do nothing at all or even harm the people you use it on.

The important thing to remember with the above information, is if you are a dedicated healer who has spent almost all of their character progression on being a better healer. Realistically, a character is likely to have a heal score of 10-14 once they hit max level. Meaning their HP:GP ratio for healing kits will hover between 0.372 and 0.445. A character who invests those points into knowledge skills will not only be able to identify the large number of healing tonics they find in dungeons for a pittance (and reap the benefits of the large HP:GP ratio from self-identified found tonics), but they'll also be able to identify other magical items to sell for direct profit. Even if you have no ranks in the ID skills, and just a decent (At least +2) intelligence modifier, you can identify healing tonics without issue.


So what do we do?
I'm getting to that!

So now we're back to the original question, what is fair when it comes to healing kits and treatment kits and the like? Should they match up to NPC healing? No, probably not. But the very best (+23 Heal) healer should definitely be able to reach around half the HP:GP ratio of an NPC healer. This would mean reducing the cost of healing kits from a base of 50gp each to 40gp (which would make the average cost for most PCs 45gp).

And what about Treatment Kits? They already lag behind regular healing kits. Should we lower the price of those as well? Yes, but not by as much, because I feel the mechanics behind the treatment kits are flawed, and also need re-examination.

As it stands, the current mechanics behind the treatment kit are far too punishing to be useful. There is very little reason to use a treatment kit when healing kits are available. Maybe if an ally is at -9, and you can't risk waiting for the regen to kick in from the healing kit? But at that point, unless you're a very strong healer anyways, you're likely to kill your patient, or do absolutely nothing. Or you know, they'll die before the party is considered "Out of Combat" so you can actually use a Treatment Kit.

Therefore, I suggest the following changes to treatment kits:

Drop the base price from 125gp to 120gp
Change the healing mechanic to [(1d20+Heal)/3] - 1 HP Healed (No Maximum)

This will make it so that inexperienced healers can still do more harm than good when it comes to using treatment kits, but a character who dedicates themselves to healing can get consistently more HP:GP at higher levels of mastery (+14ish Heal)

If we do this, then the charts for healing kits and treatment kits would look like this.

Image

Image

At the very highest levels of Heal, treatment kits will edge out healing kits in pure HP:GP ratio, but the drawbacks will be the balancing factor (unable to use on self, unable to use in combat). But in any case, if you agree, or disagree, feel free to discuss! I'm always willing to re-examine the math if it's found to be incorrect!

Thanks for reading this giant wall of text!
Last edited by bestbardna on Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby Aethereal » Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:42 am

I for one really enjoyed this write-up and greatly appreciate it. Good work.

It gives me an idea of perhaps even adding something to help out healer type characters who want to be dedicated at the craft (invest in Heal). Out of the recommendations given though, I think in particular the Treatment Kit could certainly do with a boost as long as it does indeed retain the possibility of doing harm in unexperienced hands, which the suggestion greatly diminishes unfortunately. Inexperienced hands should feel very 'last resort' when it comes to using them, where the likelihood of doing damage is quite high (and significant damage, not just -1) as to retain its unique flavour.

Also, what is 'Self-Sufficient?' We don't seem to have it documented on the wiki if it is a thing.

Lantsi
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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby Lantsi » Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:02 am

I don't think Heal per Gold is the only metric you consider. A cleric or druid might be able to heal very efficiently, but it comes at the cost of spell slots. Spell slots are typically better used to control or damage enemies. A summoned creature that soaks up 70 damage is far more value out of a spell slot than simple healing. On top of that, you can run around with 30 healing kits and throw out more healing than someone relying solely on their spell slots.

Is it as gold efficient? No, but crafting wands or scribing scrolls isn't either yet they essentially grant you extra slots. Healing kits getting close to competitive with strong healing spells is actually one of the more efficient ways of preserving spell slots. I've crafted two wands and it's cost me over 5k.

bestbardna
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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby bestbardna » Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:57 pm

Edit: The information in the first post has been updated to make some minor corrections!

bestbardna
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:01 pm

Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby bestbardna » Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:41 pm

Aethereal wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:42 am
I for one really enjoyed this write-up and greatly appreciate it. Good work.

It gives me an idea of perhaps even adding something to help out healer type characters who want to be dedicated at the craft (invest in Heal). Out of the recommendations given though, I think in particular the Treatment Kit could certainly do with a boost as long as it does indeed retain the possibility of doing harm in unexperienced hands, which the suggestion greatly diminishes unfortunately. Inexperienced hands should feel very 'last resort' when it comes to using them, where the likelihood of doing damage is quite high (and significant damage, not just -1) as to retain its unique flavour.

Also, what is 'Self-Sufficient?' We don't seem to have it documented on the wiki if it is a thing.
The difference between 1 and 3 HP is pretty small, considering how large health pools are in the late game. If we increase the danger by changing the formula to [(1d20+Heal)/3] -2, then the price range would need to be lowered to 110gp-120gp (Average Price 115gp) in order to make them worth taking at high levels instead of healing kits. If we do that, then the chart looks like this.

Image


If we keep the formula as is [(1d20+Heal)/3] -3 but remove the max HP regained feature, then in order to make them match up to the suggested healing kit change, the price needs to be reduced further to 100-110gp (Average 105gp). If we do that, then the chart looks like this:

Image

Also, the Self Sufficient Feat on this server is "Herbalist", and I forgot to include the Greater Skill Focus Feat, but the original post has been corrected with the updated information.


Lantsi wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:02 am
I don't think Heal per Gold is the only metric you consider. A cleric or druid might be able to heal very efficiently, but it comes at the cost of spell slots.


0th level spell slots are not typically used for combat, and are actually quite efficient to use to heal. An 8th level caster has 6 0th level spell slots, which equals 24 HP worth of healing for free, or 36, if they have the healing domain. Not too shabby at all. In addition, spellcasters don't burn their high level spell slots on healing usually (Except maybe an emergency heal or two), most often, they use their 0th and 1st level spellslots after providing a few handy buffs.

But even if they're only using 0th level spells, it's essentially an average "Master" roll (+14 to Heal Checks) for free once per day. If they have the healing domain, it's a free "Grand Master" roll (+26 to heal checks) once per day. Except you get the benefits over the course of 6 rounds rather than 20. This is all without having to spend any of your character progression. This is just something you get for free by being a high level divine caster.
Lantsi wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:02 am
Spell slots are typically better used to control or damage enemies. A summoned creature that soaks up 70 damage is far more value out of a spell slot than simple healing.


Not necessarily true. A 70HP summon is all well and good. But keeping an ally alive may actually work out better in your favour. For instance, the value of an ally's HP may be far superior to the summon, based on their build. The 30ish HP gained from Cure Critical Wounds may be worth more than the summon, because those HP can go farther, if your ally has better AC, damage, and their own skills to bring to the fight. Of course, that depends entirely on your party makeup and the relative strength of your companions. In many situations, the 70HP summon is the better choice, however. (Unless the ally in question is just so vastly superior to the summon that the extra "pair of hands" is worth less than giving the ally more HP).
Lantsi wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:02 am
On top of that, you can run around with 30 healing kits and throw out more healing than someone relying solely on their spell slots.


With the current costs, those 30 healing kits are worth 1650gp. If you can afford to be throwing down that kind of cash on every adventure, then by golly, I must be doing something wrong. I'm usually very lucky to break even on an adventure, after spending healing kits on myself and my allies.
Lantsi wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:02 am
Is it as gold efficient? No, but crafting wands or scribing scrolls isn't either yet they essentially grant you extra slots. Healing kits getting close to competitive with strong healing spells is actually one of the more efficient ways of preserving spell slots. I've crafted two wands and it's cost me over 5k.
I'm not suggesting that healing kits be buffed in power. I'm suggesting that the cost be reduced slightly to make them more gold efficient, considering the high skill point/feat investment it takes to make them worthwhile. I might not be understanding your point about making wands in comparison to buying healing kits. The argument here is not about saving spell slots. Healing kits are typically most useful for non-cleric/druid/paladin/rangers, as it gives them a method of healing.

Classes that have built in heals don't tend to invest heavily in the heal skill. They may spend skill points on them, but likely won't devote feats to making them better, because there's simply no reason to. It's more efficient for them to spend their feats on buffing their prowess elsewhere.

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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby Talisman » Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:01 pm

Just curious, why are we comparing purchased supplies with found supplies and surprised the free stuff is more gold efficient? It would be more compelling if purchased healing kits didn't outperform purchased tonics with high levels of heal skill, or if found healing supplies (which drop almost as often as potions AND often have + heal bonuses) couldn't compete with found tonics. As is, this is comparing apples to oranges.

Notice that in your own post healing kits outperform revitalizing tonics with just 3 heal skill. That's pretty good. I'd like to see it compared to healing philtres which are perhaps their more direct competition later in levels.

One thing that is maybe worth looking into is editing the Triadic merchants so that their supplies are cheaper to divine classes of Triadic faith. That makes good RP sense. But it might be opening a can of worms too. Also healing casters do sometimes invest in the heal skill. It's Aubre's highest skill despite also having the healing domain, because it saves spell slots to use the kit and is also just RP value.

As a side note, TER actually has a need for more gold sinks right now as we often see high level characters with hoards of wealth and nothing to do with it but buy tons of potions, which is one of the few reliable gold sinks we have. That isn't something we should necessarily burden onto dedicated healers and we definitely need to rather add more systems of progression such as more automated housing to provide new gold sinks, but while those features would be developed having some gold sinks is the only way to combat a runaway player economy.

bestbardna
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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby bestbardna » Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:33 pm

Talisman wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:01 pm
Just curious, why are we comparing purchased supplies with found supplies and surprised the free stuff is more gold efficient? It would be more compelling if purchased healing kits didn't outperform purchased tonics with high levels of heal skill, or if found healing supplies (which drop almost as often as potions AND often have + heal bonuses) couldn't compete with found tonics. As is, this is comparing apples to oranges.
As per the original text:
bestbardna wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:59 pm
No doubt, there will be some discussion as to whether or not found tonics are a fair comparison to make against purchased healing kits. Granted, they do need to be found in dungeons, but they're actually quite common. Revitalizing tonics are rarer than the curatives, I've found, but I still encounter them with surprising frequency. In fact, I have more healing tonics that I've picked up in my past few adventures than I do healing kits, and that's after throwing a bunch at Bailey. So I would argue that yes, they are common enough to be considered consistent for this comparison.
Talisman wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:01 pm
Notice that in your own post healing kits outperform revitalizing tonics with just 3 heal skill. That's pretty good. I'd like to see it compared to healing philtres which are perhaps their more direct competition later in levels.
I can certainly compare them, the math won't be terribly different, since they're comparable to found tonics. The only thing that would change would be the HP:GP ratio. But I'll take a look at them the next time I'm in Sarshel.
Talisman wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:01 pm
One thing that is maybe worth looking into is editing the Triadic merchants so that their supplies are cheaper to divine classes of Triadic faith. That makes good RP sense. But it might be opening a can of worms too. Also healing casters do sometimes invest in the heal skill. It's Aubre's highest skill despite also having the healing domain, because it saves spell slots to use the kit and is also just RP value.
Most assuredly, some divine spellcasters will invest in heal for RP reasons, or to use the occasional kit. But let's be honest. You're not spending an expensive healing kit when burning cure minor wounds will do. As for triadic divine characters getting discounts, it's definitely a very flavourful option, and it makes RP sense. However, I don't feel that RP sense should trump mechanical balance, considering most of the time you're playing the game, it's with mechanical considerations in mind.
Talisman wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:01 pm
As a side note, TER actually has a need for more gold sinks right now as we often see high level characters with hoards of wealth and nothing to do with it but buy tons of potions, which is one of the few reliable gold sinks we have. That isn't something we should necessarily burden onto dedicated healers and we definitely need to rather add more systems of progression such as more automated housing to provide new gold sinks, but while those features would be developed having some gold sinks is the only way to combat a runaway player economy.
People with lots of wealth will always have lots of wealth, mostly because once you're equipped and max level, there isn't much else to buy. However, a way to offset this is to provide more powerful consumables for an increased cost. Caster Level 8 potions that last longer, for instance. The dev time sink is incredibly small, as it just requires creating and adding a few items to the module. Maybe a new NPC to sell them.

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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby Loreweaver » Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:15 pm

If you're purely looking at HP healed vs CP cost, and this is assuming a character with a very manageable 8 Heal skill, I would rank the common healing options as such:

- Don't get hurt
- Resting
- Spells
- Priest NPC Spells
- 'Free' potions
- Cure Minor Wounds wand
- Heal kit +0
- Revitalizing Tincture
- Lesser Philtre of Recovery
- Philtre of Recovery
- Treatment kit
- Philtre of Healing
- (Heal kit at 0 skill would sit here)
- Philtre of Greater Healing

However, that rating doesn't take availability and circumstance into account. A number of these shouldn't be in that list at all:
Options like NPC priests and quality resting locations are simply unavailable when you're 'out there.' They're not an alternative to healing, they're how you reset once you retreat from or complete a dungeon run. NPCs don't compete with resting, except when you are on a resting cooldown (or plan to rest along the way) or when you want to avoid looking like you're near death and bleeding all over the innkeep's carpets.
Spells come at the expense of other spells or abilities. Healling may be worth it, or not. Either way, it's a resource limited by your resting opportunities (and character build). Similarly, as long as you have at least 1 HP left, you're good. AC, saves, DR, high constitution, concealment, stealth, trickery, it all helps you avoid spending money on healing supplies, but if you go on long enough then you'll eventually risk losing more HP than you have. The 'free' potions are only an option if you can get them and turn back without needing to consume them along the way, and it takes a lot of time and safe trips to gather or replenish reliable reserves.

When it comes to the healing that you can in fact stock up on and carry with you, total HP healed isn't everything either. In the middle of combat, you want the expensive options like Philtres of Healing and Greater Healing because they give you a lot of healing in a single dose, and can be taken repeatedly. This is what keeps you alive when damage comes your way. Revitalizing Tinctures have a place in helping you to keep going when you're knocked down, but their slow heal isn't going to do much to keep you in the fight otherwise.

Between fights, you can use the lesser healing philtres and tinctures to patch up. That's when you can afford to spend your rounds on healing with cheaper methods. The lesser philtre is a bit more expensive than the tincture, but then, you do heal faster that way.
If at least one person in your party has at least some points of Heal, the healing kit comes into play as a cost-effective alternative. The biggest downside: if you didn't lose enough HP yet, you might waste a high roll. Which is why you ask an ally to use the kit first, and then top up those last few points of your HP pool with the predictable potions.

There is another aspect to consider too, which is what happens when another PC starts bleeding out. Any healing you apply will stabilize them and start them back on the path to positive HP, but you don't always have the time to wait for that. Potions are useless here, you can't force-feed others.
If the dying character is at risk of taking more damage, you want to use a healing kit (or another heal that gets them back in the positives). The kit requires no skill for that purpose, it automatically succeeds and instantly restores mobility. But it doesn't heal a large amount when used that way, making it an expensive option.
If you do have time, and you can't cast your own healing spells, Treatment kits are the cheapest option by far. If you have any amount of skill in Heal, you're likely to do more good than harm and can start your ally on the path to recovery. They can be used in combat for this purpose and cost not a quarter of a healing kit, and that's why it's fine that they're pretty far down the list above. Being able to heal those in the positive numbers is a bonus option rather than the main strength.

The ultimate in non-urgent, portable healing is a magic wand of Cure Minor Wounds though. You can't buy them in shops, it takes a specific kind of PC to craft them. But they're cheap and versatile, assuming you have the right class or skillset to use them.

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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby Loreweaver » Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:20 pm

And this is a side note, but it's a miscalculation that pops up from time to time: Skill Focus and Greater Skill Focus stack, so their total is +8 skill as opposed to +5. Coupled with a few other class advantages, spells and available items, the maximum heal skill you can reliably shoot for is closer to 33 than to 23, though as mentioned above, you don't need anywhere near that to make healing kits a good source of affordable aid, and treatment kits a stabilization staple.

bestbardna
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Re: Healing Kits: Need to be rebalanced?

Postby bestbardna » Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:42 pm

Loreweaver wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:20 pm
And this is a side note, but it's a miscalculation that pops up from time to time: Skill Focus and Greater Skill Focus stack, so their total is +8 skill as opposed to +5. Coupled with a few other class advantages, spells and available items, the maximum heal skill you can reliably shoot for is closer to 33 than to 23, though as mentioned above, you don't need anywhere near that to make healing kits a good source of affordable aid, and treatment kits a stabilization staple.
Good catch on the skill focus and Greater skill Focus stacking. The original post has been updated to reflect the change. Magic items were not included in the calculations, because I'm not familiar with the loot table to speculate on what items might be out there for +Heal. I mean, if there's easily available +5 heal items out there, then this discussion is moot. Spells were not included on the table, because I wanted to stick with numbers that anyone could achieve, even the mundanes. Not necessarily getting skill buffs from guidance/bardsong/owl's wisdom, etc.

But definitely, an important thing to consider is time investment. A potion can be used in battle. Instant healing. Healing Kits and Revitalizing tonics require you to wait as your HP slowly ticks up by 1 or 2 points per round. And if you take a single point of damage during that period? Whoops. There goes your healing. Were you set to recover 26 HP and but a kobold ran around the corner and hit you with a sling bullet for 1 damage? Tough tomatoes, you just lost that 26 HP potential healing. 55gp down the drain.


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