Monk Discussion

Share an idea or post some constructive criticism for the server.
Loreweaver
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby Loreweaver » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:02 am

While it's true that the monk class is on the list of those which can use support, I do want to point out that it has everything a level 8 monk gets in vanilla NWN, as well as +1 bab, Uncanny Dodge I, Ki Strike +1 and +2, Diamond Soul, Weapon Finesse and a more powerful Improved Unarmed Strike. We also offer more/earlier/altered feats, generally changed for the better in our own opinion.

What they do lack here in comparison is a liberal offering of magic items to shore up weaknesses and magnify attribute benefits. I think that's the only argument one can make in favour of the vanilla monk's strength.

OldBear
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby OldBear » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:22 pm

I think having some monk gear, clothing, gloves etc. would go along way in making them a bit more playable or popular.

Endalyor
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby Endalyor » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:59 am

I agree, 100%

Just having some monk only items would go a long way for balancing the class.

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blatob
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby blatob » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:56 am

Already have some and working on more as we speak. But, frankly, I am building new areas, debugging others and so on. I hope to have them done by the end of the week.

HINT: I generally suck at making items. Big time.

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Obsidian Sea
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby Obsidian Sea » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:37 am

For my part, I have to disagree that Monk items is the solution. For a start, there already are plenty of Monk items uploaded to the system, and the priority on their dropping is no higher than any other class: and why should it be? We have significantly fewer Monks than most other classes. Furthermore, it's a superficial solution that will eventually run out of road when other classes/characters acquire their own magic items. You're not putting any more emphasis on what the class is capable of, only on the items you've acquired - and while that has plenty of RP richness and legitimacy, it isn't a mechanical solution to the core issue, which is that as a class, people don't believe the Monk is competitive.

At the end of the day, if one Monk has a set of gloves that let him do an additional 1d4 Cold damage per hit, that doesn't make Monks mechanically viable, it's only helping the character who lucked out on the acquisition, and does nothing to encourage other players on a low magic server to roll up a Monk, as they'll still be dependent on luck for mechanical reliability.

This is all said based on what's been said prior, attached to the concerns of those in favour of Monk changes. Personally, I have no experience with the Monk and haven't done the maths. It may or may not be mechanically viable in its current incarnation; I will defer to those with more field testing with the class.
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Loreweaver
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby Loreweaver » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:13 pm

To those requesting monk items, could you specify what that means to you? What sort of items and bonuses does that bring to mind?

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Brindisium
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby Brindisium » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:14 pm

I've always been attracted to the 'mystic' side of monks both in and out of combat. For me that is what differentiates them from Pugilists, MMA fighters and Ninjas and it is what makes them such fun to rp - both in and out of combat.

There were some movement related suggestions made in Lore's summary which made me think of the somewhat mystic "Abundant Step Feat" which "allows a Monk to slip magically between spaces".

How about adding "Intuitive Strike" too: "With a simple weapon of your size or a natural weapon, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls."

Ohmmmmm.

I seem to remember Vog making a blind monk who used shurikens and Zen archery :)
Cheese for your crackers here!

Toros
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby Toros » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:49 pm

I agree that monks getting easier access to magic items is a "bandaid" fix that doesn't address their underlying issues.

The major downside to playing a monk currently is that monks are best in a higher magic, higher level environment than we currently face. The value of anti-caster bonuses increases with level. They are also relatively weak and fragile at low levels.

However, a level 8 monk here has d10 fists, +7 bab, high scaling in all saves, d8 hp, SR 18, fists pierce DR/+2, and they get free improved knockdown. I do think they could benefit from some other additions, but they're a lot less reliant on casters for buffs.

Some ideas for possible buffs:

-Instead of the self heal being 1/day, have it be wis mod per day

-Increase monk to high bab and d10 hp

-Give them spring attack for free and let them ignore collision while tumbling

-GSF parry as part of progression

-lower DC on deflecting arrows

I think some of these have potential as quality of life and small mechanical buff changes.
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OldBear
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby OldBear » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:53 pm

I was not necessarily thinking of magic items for monks. But right now, one cannot buy gloves even that don't have negative affect on unarmed damage. Fighters can eventually buy half or full plate. I am not aware of any monk robes being sold to add anything to their AC. I was thinking along the line of gloves that might add 1 or 2 to damage, either pierce, slice or bludgeon. Robes that add maybe 2 AC. I am not playing a monk at the moment, but tried a character that used unarmed combat, not real affective when you lost ground using gloves even if you could enchant them.

Loreweaver
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Re: Monk Discussion

Postby Loreweaver » Sun May 28, 2017 10:36 am

I would like to propose the following redesign to make the monk a more versatile class:

Level 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist, Armour of Silks
Level 2: Weapon Finesse, Cleave, Still Mind
Level 3: Uncanny Dodge I, Meditation, Ki Focus, Fleet of Foot
Level 4: Ki Strike +1, Diamond Soul, Monastic Art
Level 5: Evasion, Greater Meditation
Level 6: Wholeness of Body*, Heightened Focus
Level 7: Conduit of Faith, Improved Monastic Art
Level 8: Ki Strike +2, Empty Body*
(along with unarmed damage increases as normal, and the same HD/bab/save/skill/proficiency profile as before)

All abilities below cease function while the monk uses armour or a shield.
Armour of Silks: The monk can add their WIS bonus to AC. At level 5, they gain an additional +1 AC.
Fleet of Foot: The monk gains +10% movement speed. At level 6, they gain +20% instead.
Meditation: By meditating for 3 turns, the monk can swap between Luck of Heroes, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes and Iron Will. This can be done up to WIS times/day (minimum of 1).
Greater Meditation: In addition to the effects of Meditation, the monk can cast Resistance at will, gains Purity of Body, Deflect Arrow or Ritual Magic respectively.
Ki Focus: The monk can choose one of four powers: A Special Move granting 2 temporary HP for 1 round in exchange for -2 SR, Elemental DR 10/- (40 points total), Uncanny Dodge III or Skill Focus: Balance. The choice takes effect after they rest and can so be changed daily.
Heightened Focus: The Ki Focus powers are upgraded to grant 1+WIS temporary HP, 15/- (90 points) elemental DR, Mobility or Greater Skill Focus: Balance respectively.
Monastic Art: The monk can choose a combat feat: Improved Parry, Disarm, Knockdown, Expertise, Power Attack, Great Cleave, Blind Fight, Rapid Shot or Ambidexterity. The choice takes effect after they rest and can so be changed daily.
Improved Monastic Art: The Monastic Art feats also include Skill Focus: Parry (Greater if SF:P is a general feat already), Improved Disarm, Improved Knockdown, Improved Expertise, Improved Power Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Called Shot, Weapon Specialization: Shuriken or Improved Two Weapon Fighting, respectively.
Wholeness of Body: Sacrifice a Stunning Fist use to heal for WIS x level HP. This cannot raise the monk above 50% HP.
Conduit of Faith: Choose a damage type. All attacks with monk weapons and gauntlets deal +d2 damage of this type (this decision cannot be changed once made).
Empty Body: Sacrifice a Stunning Fist use to gain Concealment 30% and the ability to move through creatures for 1 turn. This does not provide immunity to attacks of opportunity as Spring Attack would.

The revision includes a net increase in power. It also allows monks to adapt their style to their party and enemies so they can better serve in different roles, or to use their general feats to specialize and be competitive in a particular role.


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