Community - Player & DM Courtesy

For discussion, feedback, praises, criticism, concerns or suggestions on topics in Offline RP, Character Backgrounds or general roleplay.
OldBear
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Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby OldBear » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:05 pm

First of all, I want to make it clear I am not upset about anything. My comments happen to all of us, and I am sure I am guilty of doing the same thing. I would just like to suggest we all consider this type of situation when we deal with others on our wonderful server. I thought perhaps this thread would be a place where we can remind ourselves and others of the little things we would like to see to keep our little family working together in harmony.

For instance today, I logged on a bit later than I like. I used the locate command to see that 3 were in Vlasta. I ran my character there and entered the tavern. There I noticed that a dm was interacting with three players. My character ordered tea and took a seat. I would presume that since he walked past the 3 players they noticed him. They were all in talk and my character made some interactions the same way using talk. They all then exited with the dm controlled character. Not one of them acknowledged my character or invited him to go along. Granted, they had started their story interaction. I can truly appreciate that they might not want another character joining them just as they were leaving.

My suggestion is, however, that a quick tell from the dm or the players saying this story has started already and it would be difficult to add another at this time would be nice. Especially since they hadn’t even left the inn yet. To me that would be the polite thing to do. I know I have told others before, that while I am in a party, I am not the leader and not in a situation to invite the person. But I like to think a simple acknowledgment expresses the reason for not including someone into a small party. That way they are acknowledged and have some idea why they were excluded. I see it as a simple matter of courtesy to the others present.

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Dawnbreak
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby Dawnbreak » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:14 am

OldBear wrote:First of all, I want to make it clear I am not upset about anything. My comments happen to all of us, and I am sure I am guilty of doing the same thing. I would just like to suggest we all consider this type of situation when we deal with others on our wonderful server. I thought perhaps this thread would be a place where we can remind ourselves and others of the little things we would like to see to keep our little family working together in harmony.

For instance today, I logged on a bit later than I like. I used the locate command to see that 3 were in Vlasta. I ran my character there and entered the tavern. There I noticed that a dm was interacting with three players. My character ordered tea and took a seat. I would presume that since he walked past the 3 players they noticed him. They were all in talk and my character made some interactions the same way using talk. They all then exited with the dm controlled character. Not one of them acknowledged my character or invited him to go along. Granted, they had started their story interaction. I can truly appreciate that they might not want another character joining them just as they were leaving.

My suggestion is, however, that a quick tell from the dm or the players saying this story has started already and it would be difficult to add another at this time would be nice. Especially since they hadn’t even left the inn yet. To me that would be the polite thing to do. I know I have told others before, that while I am in a party, I am not the leader and not in a situation to invite the person. But I like to think a simple acknowledgment expresses the reason for not including someone into a small party. That way they are acknowledged and have some idea why they were excluded. I see it as a simple matter of courtesy to the others present.
Hi, OldBear - apologies for this, as I was the DM in charge of the interaction. I was busy with juggling the various elements of the forthcoming plot, and unfortunately did not notice your presence inside the Carp - the messages did not pop up in my log and neither was my camera situated to see you. Being a new DM on the server, I try to do things as smoothly as I can, and my control of the DMC and of the environment demands my full attention. Your exclusion on my behalf was accidental.

Again, my sincerest apologies.
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Obsidian Sea
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby Obsidian Sea » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:25 am

Indeed, for the instance being referenced I apologise if there had been a miscommunication. Had Perry Quietfoot approached the party, I would have been more than happy to include him - from the PMs we had been briefly exchanging meanwhile, I though that you had come to Vlasta to put yourself in place for the next day, as you said you would be logging out upon your arrival. IC, I imagine all three party members had their whole concentration upon trying to aid the wounded man present, though I shall not speak for everybody involved.

I do hope that any one instance of such a thing happening would not be enough to sully anybody's expectations of future hospitality. I, and I hope and trust everybody else too, try to be inclusive of others within all reasonable expectation. In this instance, the DM was undoubtedly busy, and the players too, which might have lagged or outright sabotaged their/our best intentions of responding to PMs before you logged out.
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Feronius
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby Feronius » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:34 am

I was one of the three players there, and I actually did notice your character at the bar, but I have to admit that I did not realize your character had said, emoted or done anything at all. I honestly thought you were AFK at the bar. Which is the reason I did not emote anything towards your character on my own accord.

That said, I was AFK myself when the DM showed up and only joined the RP later, before that I was at the other end of the tavern, so I may have just missed it. It is also possible my character was out of chat range from your character or that your text got lost between the other emotes and I did not see it. If me not paying attention was at fault here (it was getting late), I do apologize for that.
We were also tending to a distressed, bleeding man in the middle of a tavern, so we/the characters were a little distracted.


I understand where you are coming from, but you should have just walked up to us or poked one of us in a tell. It would have been great to have a fourth person along! Our setup was far from ideal, so we could have really used the extra damage.
If I had known you were interested/ not AFK, I would have passed you a party invite without hesitation.

Next time, please just say something, IC and OoC. Or keep saying things. If you tried and I missed it all, I am terribly sorry.
Last edited by Feronius on Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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OldBear
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby OldBear » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:56 am

Like I said, I was not upset and it did not bother me I was not invited. I was probably unclear in my tells to Obsidian. I said if nothing was going on, I would log off in Vlasta in hope of joining something tomorrow possibly. My point is only that we an influx of new players, we should try to at least acknowledge when a group is going out, why they may not be invited. Our goal I think should be inclusive not exclusive. Not that I am implying by any means that is what happened today.

OldBear
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby OldBear » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:00 am

On a second topic, a while back I said hello to a new player. They said they had been on for a while and I was the first one to say hello. Here again, it is very easy not to see someone log on when your rping or fighting. It is just my hope that we all make the effort to greet new people online. I think we do a great job when someone posts on the forums, but if we all make an effort in game, it will make them feel welcome.

PLEASE DO NOT take these comments as being critical. It is just my hope that if we all post the little things here, they won't become big issues.

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Feronius
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby Feronius » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:48 am

It may sound weird, but I honestly find it a bit awkward when everyone (essentially complete strangers from the internet) randomly starts sparking up conversation with an unfamiliar account name the moment they decide to log in on a new server. It can be a bit full-on sometimes. When the staff members do it, it does seem like a sort of natural thing to do.
I may very well be the only one in this community who looks at it this way though.

Just to clarify, I do think it is a really nice gesture to say hello to new players and it definitely gives you the impression the server is very welcoming. The thought of randomly saying hello to complete strangers just does not really cross my mind. I'm just a city boy.
When logged into the game I generally focus on or prioritize the IC interactions and try to forget about the OoC stuff, sometimes I outright tune out the OoC stuff. Including saying hello to new people or noticing who just logged on or off.
The only times I do randomly start talking to players I have never spoken to before is when there is (almost) no one else online, when I am standing next to them in the OoC area or, on a rare occasion, out of sheer curiosity about their character or character's name.

Don't get me wrong, I agree making new (and existing!) players feel welcome is super important, regardless of the way you go about it.
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Kilaana
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby Kilaana » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:26 pm

For what it's worth, I'd like to contribute by saying not every DM is the same as the next. Some have trouble juggling a large party, or accepting a new participant when things have already gone underway for that event. It's less to do with incompetence than what is most comfortable for the DM at the time.

I agree that it was an unfortunate coincidence that a character was overlooked, but the scenario that the character entered late into was not one that was ideal for him to be noticed either. Going up and asking what happened would have been a better approach in this case, as opposed to waiting in a far corner of the room and hoping to be noticed when everyone else was concentrating on an emergency situation. In an altogether different scenario altogether, when it's a more relaxed social setting, if a character is ignored when he comes in by others lounging about, it could well be that some of them went AFK, and others are playing characters who don't, for whatever reason, feel that their character needs to greet. It's not nice to be ignored, and I understand.

Juggling all the various elements of an event in-game can leave a DM very short on time and attention-span, that to ask a DM to drop a tell to inform that the story has already started seems a little unfair. If they fail to do so, perhaps the excluded player could be more considerate and not expect to be included unless (1) The DM makes an opening for him to join in, or (2) The player creates that window of opportunity by investigating the scene. Even then, the expectation to be included should be weighed carefully because it's not always guaranteed.

By entering this post, I am speaking from a position of both DM and player. I've been excluded from groups before, and literally had the door slammed in my character's face right after assisting the same group of people I helped one scene ago. I was frustrated and angry too, and my point here is just to say that knowing this happens to everyone, maybe we should go easy on our expectations, that's all.
“How long is forever, Rabbit? ...Why, Alice, sometimes just one second.” ― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Silver Snow
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby Silver Snow » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Kilaana's got the right of it, but I do think it's on everyone, at least partially, to keep others in mind while playing and try to be as inclusive as the situation and common sense allows. We do, after all, get on to play with others and it's pretty hurtful to be shut out or left on your own when the rest of the server is elsewhere/involved in something. I'd like to at least think I try to keep stragglers in mind and find a way to involve as many people in rp/dungeons as possible. Regarding DM events, I can't really say much, don't remember the last time I've been in one.
I've had a couple interactions earlier this week myself that I found pretty frustrating and upsetting, both in cases where I was simply OOC left out of things and where I felt like despite attempts to RP in a public and social setting my character was utterly ignored. It doesn't help that I've gone somewhat out of my way to be around times others are, to mitigate the timezones getting in the way. It's not a pleasant feeling and I'd rather it be inflicted on others as rarely as possible. To echo OB's original sentiment, maybe we can all try to be a bit better at being inclusive and considerate, especially with such a small server and a small community..and a horrible track record of player retention.

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Kilaana
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Re: Community - Player & DM Courtesy

Postby Kilaana » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:44 pm

I wished to use this thread to apologize to three players - CopperDragon, Obsidian Sea & Ataraxia - the last-minute tweaks to a dungeon I did for them the other day did not have the fruitful ending they hoped for. I overestimated the CRs and the party decided to retreat. For this I can only apologise, I had been DMing for 4-5 hours in a row of 3 days prior, my brain was pretty fried to the point of not being able to include flavour-text for you, nor assign any mini-reward for deciding to retreat. I shouldn't have attempted to do something and just left your group to have a regular dungeon run. My intention was never to ruin anyone's day especially when they have so limited play schedules.
“How long is forever, Rabbit? ...Why, Alice, sometimes just one second.” ― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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