Animal Empathy duration

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Krivoklat
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:54 am

Animal Empathy duration

Postby Krivoklat » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:41 am

We had a chat about this in the Discord. It was as thus:
((of course when I say, "Chat" I mean I was typing stream of conscious and Pony and Gluggle just sporatically chimed in. ;) ))
Krivoklat(Kodiak/Zokaan):
Regarding spell duration of summons... hey.. how about animal handling... 1 round per level... if I invest skills to befriend a dangerous critter... there is no time to do any RP before it turns aggressive and tries to eat me and my party-mates.

Example: The alpha den pack leader wolf along the river on the east bank almost to the sea... at best all can really do is make sure it doesn't attack.. give us time to loot the area, then tell it to stay as we exit. There isn't anything meaningful that I can do (RP-Wise)

[snipped/irrellavent]

Ponyrealms:
honestly critters going hostile on failed rolls seems the worst part tbh
like the species thatd never be aggressive

Glugglebog:
Poor LW's druid really got mauled by that bear
In front of the whole server.

Krivoklat(Kodiak/Zokaan):
I wish there was a way that... say... a group of hostile creatures that are sufficiently lower HD than my character, I could make non-aggressive so they didn't all have to lose their lives just so I could pass by them would make awesome RP.

Ideally I wish I could befriend ONE.. and then any number of other similar animals nearby become non-hostile.. maybe a number of others equal to the amount my roll surpasses the DC up to.. say... My level in ranger/druid levels.. so a 1st level ranger/druid can dominate 1 creature and make 1 nearby non-aggressive as opposed to a 7th level ranger that can dominate 1 animal and make 7 nearby non-aggressive.

Or even being able to befriend a hostile creature.. then release is ... and it does not go hostile, but remains non-aggressive (blue) ... so I could work my way through a pack one animal at a time even.

[sarcasm]
Now.. my party mates... they should have to make a will save vs the DC to tame the creature to not be afraid when a DIRE animal's timer is up... Critical failed will means they auto attack the creature out of fear ... at -5 to hit. ... and creature get's assassin death attack to stun them.

...or a 'puddle' placeable gets auto created where the PC stands to represent.. you know.. peeing themselves.
[/sarcasm]
Zokaan (Dr); Sevin (Ra) ; Mercuria (Pa) ; Mister Web (Ro): Kodiak (SC)

Unit of beauty required to launch 1 ship = 1 millihelen

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Krivoklat
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Animal Empathy duration

Postby Krivoklat » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:54 am

I would like to point out that unlike the short spell duration of a summon... when the timer on a befriended Animal/creature expires, they do not magically dissapear just as a summons would..., the creature reverts hostile, and the combat that was RP avoided by use of the skill must be resumed... the creature killed, and even at lvl 4, regardless of 1 point of Animal Handlling, or max point investment + Supporting Feat... the timer is the same (4 min)

If 1 Game Hr = 10 RL min... it could be 10-turns/level instead of 1 turn/level... that would be the equivalent of 1 game hour,

And then if you invested a FEAT into Animal Handling (like Animal Trainng, or druid's Animal Care, or Skill Focus: Animal Handling) the act of successfully dominating a creature turns it into a Henchmen, so that the effect persists through resting... but the timer remains the same (kind of like those mercenary NPC's... and, instead of turning hostile when it's done.. it just wonders off, back to it's home, never to bother you again.
Zokaan (Dr); Sevin (Ra) ; Mercuria (Pa) ; Mister Web (Ro): Kodiak (SC)

Unit of beauty required to launch 1 ship = 1 millihelen

Loreweaver
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Re: Animal Empathy duration

Postby Loreweaver » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:39 am

I think the ability gives you a number of advantages as is:
- You have a chance to move an aggressive beast out of your way. Put it in Stand Ground mode and the Command Followers option lets you send it to a corner of the map where it's out of your hair. 10 rounds is plenty for that.
- You have the opportunity to try and control an enemy in a larger pack, simultaneously removing one of their number from the fight and gaining an ally, which is a massive advantage. If the fight lasts more than 10 rounds or they die, you can repeat the trick each round until you've critically failed on every single one of them.
- You can combine these two, sending away one charging creature every round. Even while you're running. Even at level 1.
- You can pick up a creature (neutral or otherwise) in one place and use it to fight or distract or trigger traps in another. There's a large supply of candidates for this, and even if they're squishy and need a little management, that 3 HP chicken flanking your target gives you a +2 to hit. 10 rounds/level is probably not enough for the dungeon at lower levels, but you can keep reapplying the effect when it expires.*

For just a couple of skill points, you get a lot of flexibility on an ability with unlimited use. As it's not intended to give you a permanent companion (you have Animal Companion for that) and the current duration accomplishes a lot already, I'm not sure we should be making a strong skill even stronger.
As for a once-hostile creature going back to hostile, I do see the advantages of it being neutral for a bit or wandering off. At the same time, you can command it to go somewhere out of your way before the timer runs out, so in that sense it's a risk you take willingly and the rather fair downside to grabbing the strongest beast you can find to fight beside you.

* Regarding the mauled druid incident, I discovered you should be careful when you use the skill on a previously-hostile creature you're already dominating. It doesn't extend the duration of the charm because it still returns to hostile when the first application runs out. Then, after it turns hostile and you dominate it for the second time, the effect doesn't quite last the full 10 rounds/level because the second application (which did nothing for you) runs out. Then, when you dominate it again, the third application runs out almost immediately and what you thought to be under control is not. This is also the time when you crit fail and can't control it anymore.

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Krivoklat
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Re: Animal Empathy duration

Postby Krivoklat » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:21 pm

I would ask,however, that neutral or ordinaryily passive creatures (such as farm cats) that will never be dominated because of their status (I am thinking of one of the dogs in the Grazing Fields near sershal, ,and the cat that runs around the north farm) -when you try to befriend/dominate them, even if you are successful, and the log states so.. they still do not dominate, immedaitely turn hostile... and in the case of the Dog... will attack.

Can we do something about this? that maybe if an animal is set to never be dominated ever, that it also never becomes hostill on an attempt?

(and in this case... ANY attempt turns it hostil, regardless of success or not)

re: Above...
Having a dominated creature that WAS hostile turn neutral when the status runs out would be giant step towards reasonable safety.
I think the spirit of the skill in 3rd/3.5 edition is on a successful animal handle check the status with the creature is improved, I don't believe there is a duration associated with that.
Zokaan (Dr); Sevin (Ra) ; Mercuria (Pa) ; Mister Web (Ro): Kodiak (SC)

Unit of beauty required to launch 1 ship = 1 millihelen

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Krivoklat
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:54 am

Re: Animal Empathy duration

Postby Krivoklat » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:24 pm

on a more integrated level, it would be interesting that if under your animal summons spells for Druid/Ranger, that you only expand your option of Summon if you successfully dominate a particular creature from (insert list here) you can add them to your potential summon list.

So.. for example.. you could summon a dire tiger with the spell..but first you have to actually go perform a successful animal-handling check on an actual dire tiger.

Maybe this is something that investing in the skill would grant you early access to creatures in the summon list that you would only be able to get at higher level... so.. not something you wouldn't be able to get eventually... but.. if you can succeed at a handle-animal check vs a creature from (insert list) then you get immediate access to it in whatever summon spell level you have at the moment.
Zokaan (Dr); Sevin (Ra) ; Mercuria (Pa) ; Mister Web (Ro): Kodiak (SC)

Unit of beauty required to launch 1 ship = 1 millihelen


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