High Mage Suggestions

Share an idea or post some constructive criticism for the server.
User avatar
Entheogen
DM
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Virginia - USA

High Mage Suggestions

Postby Entheogen » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:21 pm

I would like to make a suggestion regarding High Mage prestige class.

It has come to my attention that the High Mage class feats Scholar I/II are under-performing. This is based off the fact that the server currently does not make proper use of resting conditions and there are no harsh penalties for completely ignoring them.
Combined with their third level feat Experimentation, which just allows 1/6th quicker rests, I feel that the kit is under-whelming.

I have discussed possible solutions with OG for replacing Scholar I/II with existing feats not creating new ones and we came up with these:

Replace Scholar I with Ritual Magic
or
Replace Scholar I with Educated

OG is more in favor of Ritual Magic and feels Educated is just barely acceptable.
My hope is that ritual magic might actually see some use then, as it stands I believe nobody has ever used the feat before?



I also feel that High Mage plays heavily off of meta-magic and would offer another suggestion. I would like to suggest that they receive a meta-magic feat in their class levels in place of Scholar II but OG and I feel that would leave them unbalanced in terms of being over-powered and so I would suggest that their class requirement feat be changed:

Combat Casting to Any One Meta-Magic Feat.
  • Entheo Genesthe - Retired, Swordhall Proprietor, Vassal of Swordcaptain Lady Rilaunyr
  • Varðr Sigurdsson - Martyr's Progeny, (eventually) Golden Lion, (eventually) Champion of Torm
  • Essuh Terik - Arcanist of Erudition, Meta-Mage, Arcane Crafter
  • Umbra - Thief, Scout-Informant, Assassin

Aethereal
Administrator, Builder, DM
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:00 pm

Re: High Mage Suggestions

Postby Aethereal » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:41 am

Educated is a feat restricted to character creation (background) only isn't it? I don't think that's ideal as it downplays the significance of character background feats!

My suggestion instead would be:

Keep Scholar I, but instead simply add Ritual Magic on top of it. If Scholar I is basically a non-feat, then keep it there for the flavour.

I'm not so sure about changing the pre-requisite feat to be more open ended: on the one hand it would allow for more versatility in builds, but on the other it might make an overlooked prestige class become the go-to powerbuild when Wizard 6 / High Mage 2 is so appealing and already gets all the benefits of 4th circle spellcasting on top of Conversion II. Why would anyone go full wizard ever again? It would make a prestige class less prestigious if everyone is a High Mage.

User avatar
Entheogen
DM
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:09 pm
Location: Virginia - USA

Re: High Mage Suggestions

Postby Entheogen » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:09 am

To summarize what we just talked about on discord, pure wizard is already unappealing in terms of power.

Benefits of pure wizard: 1 Bonus Feat and 1 more 4th circle spell slot. (Potentially access to improved combat casting... wow! /sarcasm)
Benefits of 6/2 Wiz/HighMage: Ability to (optionally**) turn Cantrips into 2nds, 1st circles into 3rds, and 2nds into 4ths.

Its a no brainer in terms of what is more powerful and versatile.

Possible solutions for enticing players to stay pure wizard and specialize (like wizards should!)
New 8th level only bonus feats in addition to Improved Combat Casting:
  • Epic Spell Focus (pre-reqs normal + greater)
  • Additional Specialization ONLY spell slots.
  • A wizards staff that cannot be dropped/traded by PC that functions as a sequencer with 1 slot.
  • Access to 1/day higher level spells based on the casters Arcane Specialty or an improved version of Arcane Specialty.
  • Entheo Genesthe - Retired, Swordhall Proprietor, Vassal of Swordcaptain Lady Rilaunyr
  • Varðr Sigurdsson - Martyr's Progeny, (eventually) Golden Lion, (eventually) Champion of Torm
  • Essuh Terik - Arcanist of Erudition, Meta-Mage, Arcane Crafter
  • Umbra - Thief, Scout-Informant, Assassin

Aethereal
Administrator, Builder, DM
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:00 pm

Re: High Mage Suggestions

Postby Aethereal » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:11 am

Some balance considerations added by Loreweaver show that the Wizard 6/High Mage 2 vs Wizard 8 is not all just outright supremacy and that there are definitely trade-offs involved:
Regarding Wizard 8 vs Wizard 6/High Mage 2, you have more advantages (as a pure wizard). For example, your fireball does +2d6 damage, your level 4 spells add your INT and spell focus feats to their DC and your familiar has.. well, a few more HP I suppose.

Converted spells are 'raw' magic, they use a fixed caster level and DC. For non-converted spells, you cast as a level 6 wizard.
In the case of Polymorph, I believe it picks a form at random
On the upside, you can use your feats on other stuff and get by with a low casting stat (as a High Mage.)
So there are still downsides to taking the 2 levels of High Mage instead of 8 Wizard: Their converted spells don't benefit from spell focus feats / INT modifier to DCs) and in general you lose the damage boost to your spells which you would get from 2 more levels of Wizard (i.e. High Mage levels do not improve your spell casting level). There is thus less reason to buff pure wizard, but some of the ideas above if toned down may still be fun. Still wholly in favour of Ritual Magic being added to the first level of the High Mage PrC though (without removing Scholar I!)
More from Loreweaver (and why I would discourage removing Scholar I too) wrote:I think it's a downgrade to be honest. High Mage is a class which can burn through spells very quickly, so being able to rest more comfortably in random locations (as well as more often) is quite welcome.

I know a lot of players prefer to avoid the hassle and uncertainty of wilderness/dungeon resting by hiking back to town (or a free, good quality spot they know of), in which case it doesn't really come into play, but the bonus makes it a class that can easily get away with it.
Finally, some thoughts regarding Ritual Magic:
What about adding Ritual Magic on top of Scholar I? (Rather than exchanging/removing Scholar I) wrote:As to that, we added some free group feats to Ranger, but they don't seem to see much more use for that. So I'm hesitant to expand on that experiment. It's also a feat which suits a lot of classes. A druid would be a natural candidate, for example, but they don't really need more power.
I guess the trouble with group feats is it requires the stars aligning for enough people with that feat around to even try to use it in the first place. Seems to me by making it a bit more liberally available it would encourage use. Perhaps instead, a feat like Ritual Magic could be learned in-game through a tutor whether it be PC or NPC and they form a sort of apprentice/master or coven/cabal sort of relationship? wrote:That may be an option down the line, yes.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests