RP XP and Job Improvement

Share an idea or post some constructive criticism for the server.
bestbardna
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:01 pm

RP XP and Job Improvement

Postby bestbardna » Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:13 pm

Oh no, it's that weirdo that plays Seggor. He's coming over here with a god damned binder, quick don't make eye conta-


Hello Everyone!

I've been only playing here a short time, but I've noticed that this server seems to lack an RP XP mechanic. I'm aware of the reduced level cap of the server, but it does make playing certain concepts near impossible. For instance, a commoner, or a non-adventuring hedge wizard or healer. Now, I shouldn't say it's impossible, there's just no point to it. The funny numbers don't go up. You don't get your dopamine boost from seeing the funny numbers go up.

The other issue I've noticed is with the job system. It's a fantastic addition to the server, but I feel like it would be utilized more if it provided a little more oomph.

What if I told you we could kill two birds with one stone? It's easy! We just need to connect the two systems together.


So how would it work?

A player would have an RP XP pool that he can fill up by RPing with other players. He does not automatically gain this xp however. In order to do so, he would need to perform his job duties.

In mechanical terms (these are just suggested numbers)

1) Every fifteen minutes worth of RP (RP in this case being continued interaction between two or more players in an area), a character adds 5xp to their pool.

2) After the RP ends, the player does not automatically add this XP to their character sheet. In order to get this XP, they must use the @work system. For every IG Hour (15 minutes) spent working, the character gains (15+Job Level) XP, granted from their pool. If the pool is empty, they gain 0 xp.

3) When work ends, a character gains their Sardil as normal. Although I believe the wage should be increased to make working more attractive, I'd concede on the matter if it meant we could get some RP XP.


So what does this mean, exactly?

Well in hard numbers, it means that a person could theoretically gain 5xp every 30 minutes, or 15 xp every hour. Is it a large number? No, not at all. But it offers characters a chance to make minor progression during downtime, and also allows a character who's goal is NOT adventuring to still progress. The funny numbers will continue to increase!



So why should we increase the wage? Shouldn't it stay lower to represent how poor the lower class is in Sarshel?

Certainly, for your standard commoner, the wage should be low. But PCs are generally more capable than commoners. Hell, even a civilian PC is more adept than the average commoner, because their ability scores are generally higher or more specialized. Also, adventurers have skills most common folk don't, and can command higher wages.

Oozes in the basement? Why hire mercenaries when Tom the Part time Cobbler (And Wizard) can clear them out for you?
Milk's gone bad in pantry? Well you can either go out and buy more, or Sally the Baker (And Cleric) can cast Purify food and Drink.
Lost the key to the stockroom? Better call Jimmy the Cashier (And Rogue *squints eyes*) to pick the lock.
Last edited by bestbardna on Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SpiralBright
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Re: RP XP and Job Improvement

Postby SpiralBright » Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:07 am

In general, I am opposed to XP being tied to the work system but I don't have constructive feedback on the matter to help improve the concept you have laid before us. All I can really say is that it may be a part of how XP is viewed on the server and that redesigning how XP is gained (normally through exploration, DM, and dungeons) would frame the concept and discussion around it better. Therefore, I'll abstain from touching more on XP and the work system.

I am in favor though of increasing the wage. In general, the money made from working shouldn't be competitive as money made from adventuring--which can be hit or miss as it should be--but I think the wages can be scaled better with the increasing of work ranks. The in-game issue comes from the work that a character can do. I don't think certain jobs should get more money than others if that was to be a thing as that becomes a game at that point of grinding. However, an experienced healer making as much as the server in the ragged tavern at the docks? The cost of supplies used to provide aid to an injured person could be at cost or more costly, thereby explaining why someone may get low wages. It's definitely worthy of discussion on how wages should be even if they aren't supposed to be high but I don't think they should be discouragingly low that everyone is forced to make an adventurer or player-initiative alone drives characters to only be hired by adventurers. Civilian RP can be challenging and rewarding like adventuring RP and I would love to see more civilian types in the world instead of everyone being an adventurer
(Might edit later with better thoughts but just a brief statement on the matter)
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Entheogen
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Re: RP XP and Job Improvement

Postby Entheogen » Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:58 pm

I am opposed to xp being received without danger and/or being tied to a system which can be automated or exploited.
A PC could go to a location that never sees other players, start an autohotkey script to type a random sentence from a pre-written log and AFK while being rewarded.
I would be willing to make an exception for a pure class civilian character however to receive some manner of XP tick/bonus.
If the civilian is built as an adventurer however, I would have DM rescind any such automated XP or bonus.

As for the wages, I found the system to be not worth using for the paltry sums.
I do respect some players will prefer to play non-adventuring PCs, in which case as above I would consider a pure civilian bonus.
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bestbardna
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Re: RP XP and Job Improvement

Postby bestbardna » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:03 pm

Entheogen wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:58 pm
I am opposed to xp being received without danger and/or being tied to a system which can be automated or exploited.
Oh I wouldn't say that RP is without it's dangers. Say the wrong thing to the wrong person, and you can end up corpsed just as easily as if you delved into a dungeon.
Entheogen wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:58 pm
A PC could go to a location that never sees other players, start an autohotkey script to type a random sentence from a pre-written log and AFK while being rewarded.
Actually, the system I suggested would require there to be interaction between two characters. IE, the script checks if there are two or more characters in the same area speaking, and adds the RP XP ticks to their pool. So a person sitting in a corner all by their lonesome emoting about how cool they are would get no ticks, but two people having a private conversation would.

Entheogen wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:58 pm
I would be willing to make an exception for a pure class civilian character however to receive some manner of XP tick/bonus.
I'd suggest that everyone get the tick, but that pure civilians get -more- xp per tick.
Entheogen wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:58 pm
If the civilian is built as an adventurer however, I would have DM rescind any such automated XP or bonus.
This is a sticky issue. How do we determine which civilians are "built for adventuring" and which ones aren't? Is it based around the skills they take? Their feats? Specific combinations of feats? I dunno. Seems like it'd be easier to turn off "Overcoming challenges" xp for pure civilians and just giving them more rp xp.
Entheogen wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:58 pm
As for the wages, I found the system to be not worth using for the paltry sums.
Well yeah, that's why I outlined the changes above. So that the system would be used more.

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Poisonous
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Re: RP XP and Job Improvement

Postby Poisonous » Mon May 02, 2022 1:44 am

I don't have strong feelings about the rest but I feel 100% that it would be extremely positive if pure Civilian classes could level up significantly via the work system.
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Loreweaver
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Re: RP XP and Job Improvement

Postby Loreweaver » Tue May 03, 2022 8:50 am

There are three main things we want from the work system.
- It should let you make some coin safely
- It should give you the freedom to pick your own job
- It should make it easy to find you for character interactions

We don't want it to compete with adventuring, because there's not much reason to take chances if it's easy to get rich. It's primarily a way to scrape together some resources when you're down on your luck and heading out is too dangerous, or something characterful to do in your downtime which gives you a little extra.

The system as it stands is not particularly exciting. We'd be able to give you more tailored events and challenges by focusing more on specific and popular tasks like running a delivery, waiting tables or helping out the blacksmith. But that's also going to funnel everyone into the same few activities as it takes a lot of resources to properly add performing, hawking wares, tending the sick, patrolling the city and anything else people will come up with. So it's deliberately abstract to give players maximum freedom.

The main limitation's that you're restricted by area. That's because giving you a fixed location means people can learn where you hang out and look for you there. The work requires you to check in every 5 or so minutes if you want to maximize your pay so you don't leave people hanging if they do show up to interact. A lot of the 'low reward' experience comes from being afk through most of it, although as said above, it'll never be a major moneymaker. The xp reward also comes in here. It was intended to be an encouragement for people to work together and hang out, as that's more interesting than having everyone hide in their own corner.

I think there's no question that things could be more engaging or rewarding, particularly with the new possibilities added with NWN:EE. Somewhere down the line we'd like to do an overhaul that gives more to do while working, even if it's just something like an abstract minigame. That should also make it easier to get the full reward for your time.
XP is probably not something we'd reimplement, although we could make an exception for civilian levels. The reason for that is that xp mostly contributes to combat prowess. We'd like to develop different sets of numbers that can go up instead, whether that's tied to your wages and skill levels, your standing with the guilds and their item/crafting access, or your town's overall level of prosperity and its associated service levels. It's not going to be a priority at the moment, however.


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